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...No. I'm just using that. Sir, first see, I'm talking about the word 'communication', not conditioning. We'll come to that. I don't know if I understand it rightly , I am talking - we are talking about that word, 'communication', which means, as I said, to build together. Here, communication means building together, understanding together, working...

You know that word, 'communication' is very important to understand. Communication means building together, creating together. The word itself means that. And here we are trying to communicate, the speaker is trying to communicate with you, who are the listener, which means the listener and the speaker are creating together. Therefore, you're not...

...we go into that this morning? Can we freely enquire together into this question? Because communication and relationship always go together. If there is no communication there is no relationship, not only between you and the speaker but also between each other. If we merely remain at the verbal level, at the formal level, that communication is very...

...all these questions of yourself. If you have - I am not suggesting that you should, or that you must, but as two friends talking over together, each points out to the other, asks questions of each other, doubts what the other fellow is saying, so there is interaction between the two, there is a communication. And communication implies not only a...

...course not. Sir, when you hold a hand of another, you can hold it out of habit or of custom. Or you can hold it and communication can take place without a word, because both are at the given moment intense, communication has taken place, without a word. But we are not intense, passionate,...

...were talking yesterday evening? Communication with each other, to commune, to communicate something to another, unless they are really willing to listen, however friendly, however good-intentioned, unless one is able to listen to another, communication becomes rather limited, misunderstood, and apt to be misguiding. So we are going to talk over...

K: I understand that, sir. But I want to find (laughs), not a drug, not a medicine, not a way, but there must be a communication between you and me who is the ordinary man, a communication so that the communication is so strong that very my act of listening to you and you communicating with me operates.

...in English we have to understand the meaning of words, how they are used. And in this communication, that is, in listening to what is going to be said, either we share in what is being said or merely translate what is being said into ideas, into abstractions. Either we share together what is being said and not translate it into an ideology, into...

May we stop now? It is an hour and a quarter we have talked. You haven't talked but K has talked. But we have had a communication with each other, because we have established the basis of a communication in which there is no superior and the inferior, one who knows and one who does not know. May we get up? Apres vous: After you! (laughter)

...with the psyche, the mind, and from there moving outwards. I don't know if we are communicating with each other. Communication means, as we said the other day, learning together, sharing together, observing together, creating together. That is, really, that means communication. So we must, you and I, must both move together step by step, and not...

So, the next question, which is much more difficult to answer - you have to have patience so far. Patience means - please understand, patience - I am using the word 'patient' in a particular sense. Patience means the absence of time. You understand? Generally patience means go slow, be patient, take time, don't react quickly, be quiet, take it...

K: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Patience, patience. The gentleman says, if I have understood him rightly, to bring about this order should we give first place to god. That's right, sir? That's a question isn't it?

K: What is real friendship, if in that there is no trust or respect. If there is no trust or respect, what is the meaning of real friendship? I don't know. (Laughter) If you haven't got respect and affection how can you have friendship? I don't quite understand the meaning of this question.

...of a guru is fear. Right? The respect that you have for your bosses, for your politicians, for your gurus, for your so-called higher authorities, that respect which is never shown to those below you, politically, religiously, morally, ethically, in business, is really a cowardice. Are you accepting all this? The word 'respect' means to look back....

...Nobody has said that to me, here or in India or anywhere else. Perhaps one or two have. But I'm asking you, out of politeness, kindness, etc., respect, what do you pay for something which is unpayable.

...give you comfort, which will psychologically make you feel secure. That you love, which is what you want, you love. Right? Be ruthless in this. So devotion is not love, which is different from respect. You understand? Devotion is totally different from respect. That is, to respect another, care for another, consideration for another. But you only...

K: Right. That we say, that is our life. Then what do you mean by religion, a religious life? You tell me. What is religion to you?

...choiceless awareness and a quality of religious wholeness. I mean - we mean by 'religion' not beliefs, dogmas, rituals and the vast network of superstition, but religion in the deep sense of that word, which only comes into being when there is this self awareness and meditation. And that is what we are going to talk about during these four talks,...

K: Another problem which we ought to discuss - we said yesterday we would - religion, meditation, and if there is something sacred. We said we would talk about that.

We meet next Saturday I believe, for questions and answers. Next Sunday will be the last talk. We will discuss together next Sunday what is religion, what is a religious mind, what is something that is beyond all thought, what is meditation and so on. We will go into all that. Right, sirs.

...we are going to enquire into that. That is, what is religion? Please understand, we have talked about fear, we talked about psychological wounds, not to carry for the rest of one's life. We talked and have gone into it together, what is relationship, the significance of relationship. Nothing can exist on earth without relationship, and that...

Now, look at it the other way. What do you consider religion? What is, to you, religion? To you, to you - what is religion? You understand, you must answer this question.

...at your japam and your repetitions of whatever you repeat. You don't say, 'Why am I doing this? What is the reason, what lies behind all this?' You follow tradition and therefore you think that's religion. You know, in India somebody calculated three hundred thousand gods. It is perhaps better than having one god. You can choose anything you like....

Is religion all the things that thought has put together? The rituals, the robes, the gurus, the perpetual repetition, prayers and the whole thing, is that religion? Or is it a big business concern? There is a temple in South India that makes a million dollars every third day. You understand what I am saying? Every third day that temple gathers...

...Please, let's go into it, that one thing. What is yourself? Are you not the result of your parents, genetically, heredity, are you not the result of your culture, of your religion, of all the literature and so on; and you are that and the European is that, the Indian is that. Right? They are the product of their environment, of their culture, of...

K: That's very important because religion, at least the meaning of word is to gather together to be attentive. That is the true meaning of that word, religion, I have looked it up in a dictionary.

...about it, it is there. So we ought to go into that too. And whether love, not the remembrance of pleasure which has nothing to do with love and compassion, whether that love and compassion with its own peculiar all-comprehending intelligence, whether that love can exist in our life.

So only when you understand what dying means then you will know what love is. So love is not something of the past, of thought, of culture, it is not a pleasure. Therefore a mind that has understood the whole movement of thought becomes extraordinarily quiet, absolutely silent. This silence is the beginning of the new.

...said is there any other action, in which there is no conflict, which is not a repetitive activity, a repetitive form of pleasure. To find that out we must go into this question of what is love. Don't get sentimental, emotional, or devotional, but we are going to enquire. Love is always negative, it must be. Love is not thought. Love is never...

You know, to find out anything humanly, one must begin with a certain quality of freedom, mustn't one, because if you are to investigate into such a complex problem as love, one must come to that investigation with a freedom from all our particular prejudices, idiosyncrasies and tendencies, our wishes of what love should be, either Victorian or modern.

...that is what we are going to do, find out what it is not, to find out what it is. We said, what is love - you know, that is one of the most important things in life. If one has love you can do what you like, then there is no conflict, then there is no evil, there is great bliss, but to imagine what bliss is and pursue that, is not love. So we are...

And what is the relationship of thought to love? That is what you were asking madame. Love - this becomes rather difficult - love is free from thought. Love is not the product of thought. If it is, it is still part of desire, obviously. So love is independent, is free from all the activities, and chicanery, dishonesty, desires, sensations, sex....

Then we can go from there to find out what love is, what death is. And you will find that love and death go together. And you will find, if you are learning, that love is not pleasure, desire. And love is something that's totally of a different dimension, which can operate in the world. And without order, without understanding disorder, the...

Look, if I say, I love you, and I say to myself, why do I love you? What have I done? I don't love you, do I? You understand, sir? When I say, why do I love you, I have brought in an intellectual process which says there must be a cause. And where there is a cause there is no love, is there? What's the matter with you? So when I put the question,...

So to find out, or to come upon that strange flower which is called love, which cannot come about through institutions, through organisations, through belief. And is love pleasure, desire, jealousy? If it is not, then is it possible to wipe out all that, effortlessly, naturally, easily? That is, can hatred, violence, which certainly is not love,...

Is there love without attachment? Is love pleasure? Go on sirs, enquire with me. Is love desire? Is love the beginning of sorrow? If, or when there is sorrow, pain, grief, ambition on one hand and on the other you say, 'I love'. Your ambition destroys love, your jealousy prevents love. So love is not desire, nor pleasure. So is there love without...

...No, no. As the gentleman, as he pointed out, Maria, please, don't explain it away, just see what he said. He says, when I attend to that fear, it disappears. And I ask, we asked, does that fear return, in another form. So doesn't that indicate - I'm just asking - that when there is attention, fear is not. So can I attend fear, which is taking...

You resist, fear enters into it, not to be hurt more. So gradually that hurt has helped you to isolate yourself. Right? See the fact. The consequences of that isolation is more fear, more anxiety and so on and so on and so on - the consequences. So the fact is that you are hurt. And what is hurt? You understand my question? What is the thing that...

...force him to look, obviously. You can't cajole him, you can't promise. You can't say, well, my dear chap, do look and you'll get something out of it. Don't bother to look, but be aware of your fear. Don't bother to look at this factor of the systems that have been developed through centuries that hold you, don't bother about that, but be aware of...

K: Fear? I thought you were rather fed up with that word. Do you really want to talk about fear? Yes? All of you want to talk about fear?

4th QUESTION: You have stated that if one stays with fear and not try to escape and realise one is fear, then the fear goes away. How does this come about, and what will keep it from returning on other occasions in a different form?

...the question? You want me to repeat it once more? May I repeat it again? You have stated that if one stays with fear, not try to escape from it, but actually realise that one is fear, that is, one is not separate from fear, then apparently, according to you, fear goes away. How does this happen, how does this come about, and what will keep it from...

When there is no fear whatsoever psychologically - whatsoever - what is the state of your mind? Please go, enquire together - what is the state of mind that is totally, completely free from all fear? Will it seek any will it have any desire to protect itself? Will it have any need or necessity to seek something to which it can pray, worship, or...

...what happens in our life? Dependency, possession, jealousy, anxiety, fear, violence, the demand of more and more pleasure, sex and so on and so on, so on. And that's what we call relationship. Right? And that is what we call love. Now why does the mind, feeling so completely lonely, why can't it resolve that loneliness and not proceed to be...

...Now which is it what we are doing now - all of us. Are we making an abstraction of it, an idea of it; or yes, it is so, by Jove, I realise what I have done - I have separated myself from fear, and therefore I am acting upon it, which is, I see the falseness of it, and that fear is me. Is that a fact to me, or is it an idea to me? You follow, sir?...

K: Now, then thought comes along and says, I've been afraid or because of this and because of that, now I must defend myself, rationalise fear and so on, so on, so on. It's so obvious, what are we discussing?

And if one may again point out without boring you, that this is not a lecture about religion or philosophy, or what is peace and so on. It's not how you should think or what you think but rather together, you and the speaker, enquire into this very complex question of what is religion and if it is possible not only to have peace in the world but...

...that life is a process of relationship. Why in our relationship with each other, however intimate, sexual, however very close, why there is conflict? Why two people cannot live peacefully? Have you ever asked that question? Why? Because this is very important. If I don't know how to live peacefully with my wife, with my husband, with my...

...sorrow in the world. They are still doing it. How many women, men, wives, have cried about this. For thousands of years, and nobody stops it. They talk about peace on earth; they don't mean it. To have peace on earth one has live peacefully. And that peace cannot be brought about through legislation. Peace means a state of mind, brain, where there...

...pointing out the other day, mankind has suffered thousands of wars, wars that seem to have no end. We have left it to the politicians all over the world to bring about peace, and what they are doing, if you have followed them, will never bring peace. We are all preparing for war. When you prepare you are going to have some kind of blow up, whether...

...all want to end war, at least some people do. And pacem in terris, that is, peace on earth, in Latin, is not possible, apparently, in this world, in spite of demonstrations, in spite of all the preaching of the priests and religious books and so on, we can never have peace in this world apparently. And we never ask if one can live peacefully in...

...Yes sir. There are several organisations that talk about peace in the world, various groups that are talking about peace in the world - pacem in terris. The pope says it, other religious organisations assert it - you must have peace on earth. And you are asking, if I understand rightly: are there individuals, groups, organisations that are working...

Talking about peace, can there be peace in this world? Not in heaven, that's an old, old traditional disease. Can there be peace between human beings, whatever their colour, their race, their language, their so-called culture? And to find that peace, there must be peace between you and another, between you, your wife, your children. You...

...years or more. Religions have also, except perhaps Buddhism and Hinduism, have created wars - a hundred heretics, burnt them, destroyed them. And so man has lived on this earth without any peace. And to live in peace appears to be almost impossible - to live without conflict, without aggression, not only in personal relationships, but also with...

How does one find peace in the world, and in oneself? I am sure one has asked this question of oneself: to live completely peacefully in relationship to others, not isolate oneself, that is fairly simple and also it has its own dangers. The dangers are that you become more and more self-centred, or commit yourself to some symbol, a figure, or to...

...as the speaker is giving in understanding? Or you are just listening, you know, playing with words. And it would be a thousand pities if you don't understand this simple thing because man has lived in conflict, and he wants peace through conflict. And there can never be peace through conflict, however many armaments and all that you may have,...

...your life, day after day, day after day and then when you retire, die? The activity of mischief, greed, envy, ambition, the activity of division between you and another, between this country and that country, the activity between the idea and action, the ideal and 'what is'. So what do you call action, what do you call activity? Please, go into it...

K: You see sir, that's why one must ask this essential question: what is action? Is it a repetition? Is it imitation? Is it an adjustment between 'what is' and 'what should be' or 'what has been'? Or is it a conformity to a pattern? Or to a belief, or to a formula? If it is, then inevitably there must be conflict. Because idea, action, there is an...

K: Action must be a creation. You see you are now making a statement like 'action must be creation', and you are finished! There is no dialogue. But if you say - that is why I am asking, please, don't offer opinions right off, what you think is action and hold on to it. Let us take it, examine it, go together - right sirs?

...We are trying to do that now, aren't we? We are trying to enquire into what is action, which is common to all of us. Right sir? Not similar, not conforming, imitative. Is there an action which we can all accept, which we all see, and act according to that, not according - you understand what I'm saying - I wonder if I am conveying, I'm not quite...

...to find out there must be care, there must be attention. Right? So one has to begin by finding out what is action. Everything is action: getting up, sitting down, walking, looking at the skies, the trees, talking, being miserable, going to the office, quarrelling, violence, everything in human relationship is action, even in the technological...

K: Wait, just - as an individual, whatever action I do must be either destructive, pleasurable, violent and so on, so on. It is a fragment that is acting.

Then what do we mean by action? Does action vary according to circumstances, according to climate, to pressure? All these are involved in that one that one word, 'action'. I don't know if you are exploring it with the speaker. So is there - we are investigating - is there an action which is correct, precise, not changing according to one's mood,...

K: Now, Narayan, if I may point out, we are talking over together action in which there is no choice, in which there is no effort as will. Is there such action? I don't know, sir, please.

...educationally, in business, in the whole of life, responsible for the total behaviour, not in a particular direction. I think there is great deal of difference when I say, when one says I am responsible for my action. That means you are responsible for your action according to the idea that you have preconceived about...

So looking at it, then one asks: is there an action which is whole, not fragmentary? In that action there is no regret, no sense of fulfilment, no sense of frustration - is there such an action? Because that is what we are asking all our life. Because whatever we do brings a certain pain, a certain confusion or a certain reward. And in the pursuit...

...also I would like to point out: I think we don't listen; we don't really try to find out what the other person is trying to say. And listening requires certain attention, care, affection. If I want to understand what you are saying I must listen to you, not block myself all the way, all the time. I must care for what you are saying, I must have...

...Ah, not we have to love. That is not an action of will. If there is to be an understanding of 'what is', and 'what is ' may be violence, greed, brutality, cruelty or affection or joy - awareness implies great care in looking. When you have a baby don't you - the mother cares infinitely with affection, gets up at two, three or four o'clock in the...

Krishnamurti: Yes. I think that is affection, that is love. When you talk to my waking consciousness, it is hard, clever, subtle, brittle. And you penetrate that, say, all right, keep your own beastly little stuff, and you penetrate it with your look, with your affection, with all that feeling you have. That operates, not anything else.

K: That's it, sir. There is not even affection to understand something. If you and I had affection - if you had affection and I had affection for you, and I say, look, for god's sake, do look at this, and because you have affection for me, or love for me, and what I say becomes important to you.

K: ...you protect it with affection, taking it in your lap, cuddling him or her, and holding his hand, you make him feel that he is loved, that he is cared for. That gives him a feeling, here is somebody who is looking after me, and there is security here.

...Do think about it a minute. We don't understand what relationship means. Because I come along and say, look, let us talk as two friends, which implies care, affection, love, consideration, involvement, commitment, and you sit there and say, 'You go on talking, but...' You would never say that to your wife or husband or girlfriend or boyfriend...

...me, is that a form of vanity? It's like a man who is vain, as most of us are, and out of that vanity we try to be humble. Is that humility? A man who is full of aggression, violence, tries to be modest. You understand? It's absurd, it's lost its meaning. Whereas, a man who is aggressive realises, sees what aggression has done in this world and all...

THIRD QUESTION: How does one meet aggression and psychological attack from a close relative from whom one cannot escape? (Laughter)

K: Oh, no. No, no, no, no, you have not understood what we have said. Both arise, love and aggression, they have no formulas. Really, that is not what we are talking about.

So we are saying, observe without direction, attachment, or aggression, or your violence. Observe it without any motive, direction, desire, just to observe it, and in that very observation there is an ending of it. And therefore you are inviting death while living. You follow? I wonder if you understand this? Not commit suicide, that's another...

K: No, just sir. This is really for half an hour, do please put your minds to this, I beg of you. Are you different from your aggression? Obviously you are not. You are aggression, it is part of you.

...in our relationship when you are nothing? You understand? You know what it means to be nothing? No ambition, which doesn't mean you vegetate, no competition, no aggression, no resistance, no barriers built by hurt - you are absolutely nothing. Then what is it to be related to another? Have you ever thought about all this, or is it all so...

...does it mean to be attached and what is the difference between attachment and dependence. What is attachment? Why is one attached to a country, to a person, to some experience they've had, to some ideology, to some definite conclusion? Why do people do this throughout the world, depending upon their circumstances, upon their environment - social,...

K: Because the experience leaves a mark on the brain as experience and therefore there is memory of it, and this memory, you are saying, divides.

K: You see, sir, do we learn anything from experience? We have had, since history began, written history, five thousand wars. I read it somewhere. Five thousand wars. Killing, killing, killing, maiming. And have we learned anything? Have we learned anything from sorrow? Man has suffered, have we learned anything from the experience of the agony of...

K: Opinions, beliefs, I have had an experience, it gives me tremendous satisfaction, I am going to hold on to it. I have had knowledge, you know, all that. How do you help me, such a person, to be free of all this? Your words, you explanations, your logic, everything says, quite right, but I can't move out of that.

K: Let's enquire why. Not only identify with outward things, but also inwardly identify with my experience, identify with experience and say, this is my experience. Why do human beings go through this all the time?

...American girls and boys, and it is now spreading throughout the world, have sex very early. Don't be shy, this is happening. They want to have all the experience immediately - swimming, anything - experience - skiing. So they want, as they are young, they want to experience everything at once in a short time. Right? So as they grow older, see what...

So will you give up psychological securities to which you hold? Your belief, your dogma, your tradition, your prejudices, 'My experience is better than your experience', 'I know, you don't know'? You follow? All that, can you give it up?

So then there is the authority of another, and the dependence on another; there is the authority of tradition, there is the authority of the past as memory, as experience, as knowledge. And there is the authority of an experience which is the immediate. Are you following all this? You have had an experience, and that becomes the authority. And...

...asking sir, I am asking what is thinking? Without memory there is no thought, without knowledge there is no thought, without experience there is no thought, whether that experience is through perception, whether that experience is through an accident in a car, without experience there is no knowledge. And experience is limited, of course, so...

And the experience must be recognised, which means it has already had an inclination of it. So a mind that is free of the individual - may I go on? - has no experience. Won't somebody catch me in this?

So what will bring us together? Belief won't, authority of any kind is rejected, the reward by another as a means for you to change is also rejected. And if you say you are going to be punished in heaven for not obeying, you say 'Go away, don't be silly', and you pass him. So what will make us come together?

K: That's what I'm I am coming to that, madame. Look at it, sir. He is attracted to it, attracted to all that, and he won't listen to my talk. He kind of avoids me. Right? Don't you know all this, as parents? No?

K: Are you saying no? When are you then generous? When are you feeling affectionate, kind, generous, sympathetic? Or do you never feel it? Or only occasionally?

K: Who invented exams? (Laughter) The Chinese? The Mandarins? I believe they were the original people who kind of invented this monstrous system.

JK: Yes, it is the activity of thought. Now if I consciously meditate, practise, do all this kind of what I call nonsense, then you are making the brain conform to another series of patterns.

K: No, but that's not I'm saying, the source of fear of every kind that human beings have is born from thought. Will you listen to that statement, as you would listen when I say I really love you? Because it's too simple, your mind immediately says, 'No, that's too damn simple, it's not, it is much more complicated than that'.

...when given an opportunity it breaks through. Which is it? I've seen so many people in - I've lived a long time - from the age of fifteen I've seen this happen, with people of my own age - begin beautiful, you know, and gradually finish, destructive, cruel, brutal, self-centred, ugly, drunk.

K: Look, sir, can you watch, is there an observation of that feeling without naming it? The moment you say, anger, it is violence. Right?

I am anger, am I not? Anger is not something separate from me. I am greed, envy, anxiety. Right? I like to think that is something separate over which I have control. But the actual fact is I am all that - even the controller is me. Right? So there is no division between greed, anger, jealousy, and so on - that is me, that is the observer. Right?...

So the hurt is not different from me, the 'me' is the image, and that image gets hurt, so I am that image. Like anger is not different from me, I am anger. I might think I am different but in actuality I am anger. So do you see the truth of it - not the idea of it? the actual truth that when you are angry that anger is you.

We are saying: what takes place when the observer is the observed which is anger? You can test this out for yourself. Don't accept a thing the speaker is saying, because if you accept, repeat, then you are second-hand human beings, which you are. So, please have the courtesy, the dignity, the intensity not to accept anything, psychologically. So,...

K: Sir, look at it in yourself. At the moment of jealousy, or of anger, or of envy, or of hate, whatever it be, happiness, at that second there is no division, is there?

K: How do I know that anger is a fact and the opinion about anger is a conclusion. Right? Don't you know? The opinion, the judgement about anger is a conclusion. And the fact I'm angry is a fact. For the love of god.

K: Wait, careful, don't agree so quickly. You are not different from all that. Right? Are you different from anger? No, of course not. So you are anger. Right?

K: You are anger at that moment. You are envy at that moment. And so there are many, many moments you are. Right? You are your anger, you are your name, you are your bank account, if unfortunately you have a bank account, you are your family you are your society, you are your god - you are, you invented all this. So, there is no 'you' separate...

K: Sir, no, not my relationship with truth. I am angry. Right? Suppose I am angry - there is anger, not I am angry - there is anger. Can I, is there an observation of that feeling, that reaction, without the whole movement of thought coming into it? That's all my question.

K: I never said - those are biological demands, but psychologically - anger, envy, jealousy, hate, attachment - can't you end all that? Of course, one can. Then do it! Talk to your wife or your husband, to your neighbour, gently, quietly, with affection, with care. Sir, you make me cry! You don't listen to all this.

...lack of love, and to have no psychological fear at all. All this implies that one must stand alone. There is a difference between isolation and aloneness, between loneliness and being able to stand by yourself clearly, unconfused, uncontaminated.

K: So instead of going through all that business why don't you find out, let's find out what is thought, whether it can end, what is implied. You follow? Dig!

...Sir, I don't know what is happening to most of the people all the time. But I am saying as one human being we are so conditioned in the pattern of achievement, whether in business, in religion, in any way, we are conditioned to achieve. Now in becoming aware of this conditioning, then you will find in that awareness if you are choosing, if you are...

K: Isn't this what is happening in life? Don't say, it is not my business if you are a Communist. It is my business to see if we can live in security, in peace in the world, we are human beings, supposed to be intelligent. Why should I be committed to anything?

K: Why does one, I mean, if one is afraid, do you, does one want to go really deeply inside the whole business of it, and be free from it? Does one demand that? Or we don't know how to deal with fears and so we run away from it, avoid it and explain it away. Is that it, we never really want to go into it and completely dissolve it. Is that what is...

K: Could we start: why are we fragmented? Why do we look at life and all our actions and our business, whatever it is, always this fragment, business, religion, love, hate, you follow? It is all so broken up. Why do we do this?

So to understand the nature of love, is it possible to be totally free from attachment? Please ask this question of yourself. You are all attached to something or another. Become - if I may suggest most respectfully - become aware of the consequences of that attachment. If you are attached to an ideal you are always on the defensive or aggressive....

If you discard both and then say, look, I am self-centred, let me find out if one of the expressions which is attachment - attachment to my wife, to my family, to my god, to my belief, to my opinions, to my judgement - you know attachment to something, whether I can be free of that attachment - without conflict, without renunciation, without exercising will, because that is part of the self still.

...meaning of death. Have you ever ended anything without explanation, without resistance, without seeking a reward or punishment, end something? Have you? Have you ever ended completely attachment? That's what it means to die, to end. You can't when death comes, all that is cut off, your attachment to a person. So the significance of death in its...

...end anything, we are always wanting to continue. When you end an attachment - please, we are not talking theoretically, or in abstraction, or theoretically, but actually, to end, say for instance your attachment to your guru, the attachment to some kind of belief, when you end it what takes place? You understand my question? Have you ever ended...

Now is your mind free from attachment? You understand? - attachment to an ideal, to a person, to an experience however great that experience is - attached. Now just listen. Is attachment in the present, or in the past? I am attached to you, is that an active present, or is it a past anchorage in you, and a remembrance?

...and that pain may come back and be afraid of it - that is, physically. The same thing psychologically. I am attached to you and that attachment I consider love, which is nonsense, it is not love; where there is attachment, there is no love. Obviously. We won't go into that for the moment. So I am attached and I am afraid if I let go my attachment...

K: In me it is the attachment to the past. Now let's take that, one thing. Attachment to the past. What do you mean by that word 'attachment'?

So we have said if there is love there is no attachment; if there is attachment there is no love. So there has been the removal of the major factor in negation of what it is not, which is, love is not attachment. You know what it means in your daily life? No remembrance of anything, my wife, my girl-friend, or my neighbour told me, no remembrance...

Now what is the relationship between two human beings when there is total freedom from attachment? Because we said attachment is one of the causes of great suffering, pain. What is it? Do you want my answer - or are you facing, looking at the actuality? The actuality means what is actually taking place and therefore you are observing with care,...

...- the Arab, we are at war with each other. Right? That is fairly simple, obviously, observable. But if you go much deeper inwardly, I may cling to a person for various reasons, and the very attachment to that brings a great deal of conflict, fear, hate. Right? And without analysing can I observe the fact? We will go into what we mean by...

...Right, sir? Shall we stick to that for the time being and see what is involved in total education. That is, authority denies freedom, but the authority of a doctor, mathematic teacher and how he teaches, that doesn't destroy freedom. And there must be freedom to learn, that is the essence of learning, surely. Right, sir? Freedom. Now what does...

So what is freedom in the field of reality between two human beings who 'love' each other? Love being - I am putting it in quotes. Because apparently that is one of the major causes of this extraordinary suffering. If there is order in that relationship, then that order must come about through freedom - not through regulation, not through...

...don't throw away your bank account, you won't anyhow - but psychologically put away everything that you have collected. That's going to be very difficult. That means there must be freedom. Freedom - you know the word 'freedom' etymologically also means 'love'. When there is freedom at such enormous depth and boundless, there is also love. And to...

...Sirs, you don't put your minds to all this. Right? See if it is possible for you, sitting here now, to be entirely free of the image of words. So there is freedom - there is no freedom in becoming. There is no freedom when a man is ambitious, or a woman is ambitious, greedy, envious. He may think he is free because he expresses his ambition. So...

K: 'I accept the limitation' - I won't accept it. My mind says there must be freedom from prison. I am a prisoner and the prison is very nice, very cultured and all the rest of it, but it is still limited and it says there must be freedom beyond all this.

So freedom is not to do what you want to do. That's not freedom at all. And I think probably that freedom has brought about great misery in the world, each one doing exactly what he wants to do. And that is rampant in this country, where there is no tradition, where there is no discipline - I am using the word discipline totally in a different...

K: Ah! (Laughter) That's all I am saying. You are all so mad after money, which means freedom, which means pleasure, that's all you want. And you call that living.

K: Generally it is. (both laugh) You see that's what I mean. Where is freedom in relation to knowledge? Or is freedom something other than the continuity of knowledge?

K: That is, to put it rather succinctly, freedom from knowledge, and being free, it is from freedom one communicates, not from knowledge. I wonder if I am making this clear?

So what is order, what is freedom and what is relationship? This is the first thing we are going to enquire into. And from there go into this whole question of what love is and if the mind can ever be free from this tyranny of death. Don't wait or neglect the previous things, that is love, relationship, freedom and order, because you may be only...

...the reaction. You see something in the window and you want it. What has taken place? The seeing of that dress, that trouser, that coat, that car, that woman, that man, or whatever it is - seeing, the sensation, the contact and say, 'I like that, that's exciting'. Which is, thought creates an image, you sitting in the car and driving. You follow?...

...That's right, sir, that's right. What do we mean by danger? A car is coming towards you as you are crossing the road and you might die and all the rest of it, so you move away from it. Self-preservation - the instinct to preserve one's being, both physiologically as well as psychologically. Now is not conflict similar to that? Let's keep it very...

...that: which is, to understand desire, desire is sensation - I will go into it, I will explain it a little bit. There is seeing the tree, the woman, the man, the car, the politician who is right on the top, or the guru who says, 'I know'. So perception, seeing, then contact, touching, then out of that sensation. Right? Is this clear? Then what...

...Ah, you don't understand the word 'technology'. Technique - to do something, say for instance you want to build a car, and you must know all the parts, put them together, they must all work together. I have dismantled a car, put it all to pieces, and then put it all together hoping it will work. But it did work. Right? Learning about all the...

...I don't know. That is, there are events in one's life, happenings, that appear to be a chance, happens by chance. Events that occur in random, you know, not knowing, it happens. Is that happening new, totally unexpected, or is that happening the result of unexamined, hidden, unconscious events? Just a minute, just a minute. I happen to meet you,...

...form of control. All this, with all its misery, confusion, is the lot of all of us, the life of most people; probably it is yours. And we don't seem to be able to change either ourselves or outward circumstances. Perhaps it is much more difficult to change the economic structure and the political nature, but perhaps we could, if we apply our...

...The inner is the result of the outer. If you want to change society, which is corrupt, which is immoral, which is destructive, which is totally ugly as it is, one has to change the individual who's created this society, the human being - not the individual - the human being who has created this society. You understand this? But what are we doing?...

Or I'm asking, can my love, intense, can that bring about a change in her? Please, you're asking these questions. Can I, who have understood this whole phenomena with all its depth, will that quality of love, compassion, intelligence, bring about a change in her? That is, if she's at all sensitive, if she's at all observant, listening to what I am...

...do you listen to all this? That outward pressure is not going to change, inward giving yourself over to a presence, a reality, to god, to this, or to that, is still the desire which drives you to forget yourself, but the self is still there, only covered up. So do you listen to these statements. Right? Or it doesn't mean any thing at all? So...

...various influences, desires, purposes, and if that isn't suitable, one is driven in another direction. And this constant movement from one degree to another degree is called progress, change, and all kinds of things - acquiring knowledge, moving. Right? So we are asking if that is change at all. We are discussing change in the sense, deep...

...of living, one has to observe what actually is taking place outside and inside, in us, inside and outside. And look at it, not try to change it, not try to transform it, not try to bring about different adjustment, see actually what it is. I look at a mountain, I can't change it. Even with a bulldozer I can't change it. But we want to change what...

So what is it that brings about change? You are following all this? Somewhat at least. Thought obviously cannot. It can organise change. Organisation is put together by thought. It can plan change but the planning is limited. So when one realises, sees the fact, the truth that thought cannot possibly bring about a change, because thought itself is...

So some of you have listened for many years and do we listen and therefore bring about a change, or you have got used to the words and just carry on? So we are asking: what will make man, a human being who has lived for so many million years, carrying on the same old pattern, inherited the same instincts, self preservation, fear, security, sense...

That is, to be aware of 'what is' in oneself. Right? One may be conscious that one is envious, or violent, and to change, to bring about a change in that violence you need time. Is that so? You are following this? Please, are you? Is there somebody to whom I can talk and who'll tell me they understand?

And we are asking: I am this, my consciousness is this: fear, sorrow, pain, pleasure and all the varieties of fear, all the nationalistic, tribalistic responses, prejudices - black, white, purple, pink and all the rest of it, we are all that - subtle, violent, cruel, bitter, cynical, and we are always trying to change that into something else, like violence, trying to change violence into non-violence, which is to become.

K: First of all why is there so much cruelty in human beings? Not in nature, of course, that is natural, perhaps. Why are you so cruel? Not say, 'There is cruelty in nature', why are human beings cruel?

K: Completely, specially in big towns, and even in small villages, and hamlets man is always outwardly going, outward, pursued by his own thought, and so he has more or less lost touch with nature. Nature means nothing to him. It is very nice, very beautiful. Once I was standing with a few friends and my brother many years ago at the Grand Canyon,...

...Yes. What is the nature of the psyche? What is the nature of a total human being, as it is now, and whether that total human being can be transformed, can be changed? After all you have a student who comes to you, ignorant of mathematics, history, whatever it is, and you educate him so that he has a different mind at the end of ten years. He is...

...No, no, no, no - why? Why aren't you looking at that flower? Why? First of all, I think, we have given to nature such nature has no value at all for most of us because we say, 'Well, I can see the tree any time I want to'. That's one thing. And also, we are so concentrated upon our own worries, our own hopes, our own desires and experiences,...

K: Suffering, yes. So are we saying that it is natural in nature and in human beings to suffer, to go through agonies, to live in disorder?

K: So we talked, I spent hours, we discussed, we went into it. Gradually he saw. He said, 'Quite right'. So, sir, unless we understand the nature and the structure of appetite and desire, which are more or less the same, we cannot understand very deeply pleasure.

K: I'm not asking, saying this personally. You're attached to somebody. And you see the whole business of attachment, what is involved, the whole structure, nature of it, the consequences of it. And you end it. Right?

K: Which is, have you, who have understood or seen the truth that you are an individual and therefore no longer - are you still carrying the memories, the structure, the nature of your remembrance, your past, all that, in your mind? Yes, sir, this is a real question, don't...

K: We are doing it - find out, sir. But you haven't - have you lost have you had an insight into the nature of the individual and his organisations? Finished. If you have understood that, seen the truth of it, finished, you can never enter into that.

K: So where does that lead us? We were talking really about insight, that it actually changes the nature of the brain itself.

...Rien n'est completement. Look sir, when you listen to music, there is the beauty of it, the romanticism of it, the remembrance of it, hearing it in different places, and the association that it evokes, that music, with whom you heard it, how you talked about it, what the critics said about it and so on. So when your mind is occupied then the space...

K: Go and listen to music. The moment that music stops you are back to your images. This is all so childish! Take drugs, that also creates various images.

...bear in mind we are going to make it much more orderly, strict and not make it into another resort for amusement, please. Though it has been announced several times, that music that goes on, what is called music - Bong(?) is it? - thumping on the drums and so on went on until half past ten last night. So please be courteous, careful of others and...

K: No, no, sir. Is courage the opposite of fear? That is, if fear is non-existent is it courage? Or it is something totally different?

K: Thought, quite right. But sir, to go so profoundly it requires tremendous, not only courage, but the sense of constant pursuing the same stream.

I am not, the speaker has never been pessimistic or optimistic, he is just showing something to you: that the computers can take over all that man has done - almost, except the computers can't look at the beautiful tree, or the evening star, single, alone in the sky, or the morning light on the waters. When a machine can take over all that you are...

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