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    As one observes, our action is based on ideas. Ideas are more important than action. Right? I wonder if you see Please, we are talking together, I am not just talking to myself. Ideas or ideals is the platform, is the background from which we act. Right? Whether those ideas are personal or evolved through a great many centuries, or sanctioned by...

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    What have I to learn about myself? That I'm crooked, that I don't think straight, that I'm vain, that I'm arrogant, I am proud, I am this - what does it all mean? Words, don't they (laughs), memories, ideas. Have ideas any content, except what thought gives to that idea? I wonder if you capture all this. No, this is too radical, as you said.

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    ...I am asking this most respectfully and humbly - it's not aggressively put, this question. What does one, after listening to some facts, not ideas and theories and opinions and judgements, what has one captured, received - not help - seen for oneself?

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    K: I know, of course not - when you look at a poor stranger of course you have no ideas, but the moment he says something you begin to have your conclusions. You see you are not even...

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    ...are reborn every minute. But I do hold on to my.... Please do give a little attention to what is being said. Don't carry on with your own thoughts, with your own ideas, your own conclusions, you are here to listen to somebody, aren't you? Not only to me, to each other - to listen. But you don't, you are carrying on with your own...

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    K: No, I think we are so highly intellectual, it has been part of our education, part of our culture. Ideas are tremendously important, concepts are essential. It is part of our culture. The man who says, please ideas are not very important, facts are, he must be extraordinarily simple.

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    ...can you, can one, as a human being, non-identify yourself with another? Not only with another but with ideas, with a group, with a sect, with a guru, with the whole business of it, which means you are free? Out of that freedom there is attention. How can one be attentive if I have identified myself with you? You may be most affectionate, most...

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    K: Absolutely. Driven, conditioned, brutalised. You don't care for anything, except for ideas, and carry out ideas. See what is happening in China, you follow, in Russia.

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    ...myself, and therefore asking you, how you observe, how are you aware? Are you aware totally or partially? Partially being to look at somebody, or the environment, the trees, the flowers and so on, through a series of conclusions, ideas. You have to know this, sir, find out. Now when one does that you can't neglect the conclusions, you can't...

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    K: Quite. Could we approach this question from the point of view: why have ideas - because, is the ground an idea? That is what I want first to be clear - why have ideas become so important?

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    ...nobody asks you to pay or whatever it is. Are you being conditioned by the words that the speaker uses? Are you being conditioned by the - not ideas, the idea - I'm not conveying ideas, I'm only conveying facts, and you turn it into ideas. Facts cannot condition you. What conditions you is the opinion about the fact....

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    ...we go on talking about what we were discussing yesterday evening? We were saying that there are those who perceive, see clearly, and those who conceive from those who have perceived; they formulate ideas of 'what should be', an abstraction of 'what is'. And most people throughout the world live on ideas, on formulas, concepts. And all our activity...

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    ...with each other aren't we? You know what that word means? I explained. Communication means working together, creating together, learning together. Not learning from the speaker a few ideas. The speaker is not dealing with ideas: that's a cheap trick. We are communicating, learning together, building together. That's what that word means. So, when...

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    ...How could you see without your mind - we haven't even talked about the mind. I am just asking you, sir, first listen, sirs. Do you look at me, the speaker - just listen - with ideas, concepts, or do you just observe him? He is part of your environment, how do you look at him? Obviously you look at him with certain conclusions, don't you. Now,...

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    K: The idea of together. I can't go into the idea of together. You understand? Then it remains an idea and how can you go further in an idea, which means more ideas. You understand? - but you can't go into it. You can only go into it if you have no ideas. I don't know if you follow this?

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    K: Desire can never be free. It can change the objects of desire: I can desire one year to go to buy this, the next year that, change, but desire is constant, the objects vary. And the strengthening of desire: I will do that, the will is in operation. Will is desire. Now can desire ever be free?

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    K: I'm going to First see the problem as a whole, then we will deal in detail. That is, desire in itself is not contradictory. The objects of desire vary and therefore the contradiction lies in the objects. So that's one point.

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    K: And desire for possessions is bad. So we are not discussing the objects of desire, whether it is god, whether it is power, whether it is to become a rich man or a Prime Minster, but what is desire? How does it take shape in us?

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    ...If we have a little we want more. If we have more we want something much better. We think by putting the parts together we will understand the whole. That is one of the objects of desire. By putting the parts, gathering them together we think we will have comprehended the whole and go beyond the parts, the more. So one has to go into this question...

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    ...of desire. Right? I am asking a very simple further question: why is there an opposing desire? Wait, listen, listen. And is desire in itself contradictory? Or, the objects of desire vary. Desire is not contradictory in itself but the objects of desire vary. You understand my question? That is, I see a car, I see a woman, I see a man in a good...

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    ...'car', creates the desire, or desire exists and the objects may vary. So we are not discussing the objects of desire: to be a powerful minister or prime minister, Governor, executive or a talented violinist, but we are enquiring into the very structure, nature of desire. If we understand that, not verbally but factually then there is never a...

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    ...to control it, to give it full reign, why has desire become so extraordinarily important. So we are going to go into this question: what is desire, not the objects of desire, whether it be for a woman, for a man, for a car or for god, they are all the same. The moment you have desire, the objects - god, car, woman or a house, whatever it is, they...

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    ...perfect, desire to achieve a status, a position, a power, desire to have money - all the rest of it, the whole gamut of desires. Please listen. Does the objects of desire vary or desire itself varies? You understand the question? When you are a young chap you desire a car or later on a woman or later on a man or later on a house, and so on. Do the...

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    K: The objects of desire vary according to each individual, each tendency and idiosyncrasy or conditioning and so on. Desire for that and that, and that. But I want to find out, what is desire? How does it come about? I think it's fairly clear, that. You see sir...

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    ...desire. Right? Are we working together? That is, how does desire come into being? The objects of desire may vary - you may want a better house, somebody else wants a better wife, or a husband, or a position, or a new toy, a new guru, a new - I don't know, whatever. So the objects of desire vary all along, all the time. We are not talking about the...

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    ...a great sensitivity to find out for ourselves what is beauty. You see a marvellous sunset, the early morning rise of the sun over the trees, or you see a great mountain against a clear blue sky, tender, quiet, silent, great beauty, great sense of tremendous dignity, a sense of wonder. When that takes place, that is, when you see a great marvellous...

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    ...live a life in which there is no conflict means no division. You are no longer a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Christian, an ideologist and theorist. In this way, sir, to live gives there is great beauty in this. Beauty isn't the perception of something beautiful. It is the way of living. And without love and beauty and sense of immensity of the universe,...

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    ...Venus, evening star, when you looked at it, if you looked at it with an occupied mind you don't see anything of it. But when you look at it quietly for some period there is some great delight in it, there is great beauty in it. So, where there is silence, there is beauty. And beauty is when you are not, when you with your turmoil, with your...

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    ...are absent. Would you agree to that? Are you listening to all this? (Laughs) If you are listening and you see or perceive when there is beauty, great beauty, not merely physical beauty of a woman or a man, when you perceive that, for the second your self is not there. I would consider that is great...

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    ...else for a few seconds or a few minutes or for an hour, which means the self is not there. The self, the egotistic self-centred activity, the self-interest - all that is banished by the great beauty of a cloud, full of light and dignity. At that moment the self is absent. So is not beauty - does not beauty exist when the self is not? Would you -...

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    ...seemed so marvellously alive, pulsating, full of energy. There we were, he and the speaker, watching this great beauty and never being with the beauty, always watching it, never feeling the beauty with one's heart and mind, being utterly sensitive to all the glory of the earth. He said we won't talk about beauty, that is your business, you tell me...

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    ...beauty? Does beauty exist, not in the man or the woman, in a lovely face, good manners, dignity, a sense of proportion, the way he talks, the way he walks? In that also there is great beauty. Not in sloppiness - sorry! (laughter) And when you dig deeper, what is it? Is it a pleasure? Is it a delight? Is it something that you experience? Or it has...

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    But understanding the nature of all this, and in that understanding comes great beauty, not only the observation of the beauty of the mountains, the hills, the rivers and nature, but also the beauty of a person, whether it be a man or a woman, the beauty. Beauty exists only when there is no me. Not the beauty of a picture painted by a most...

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    ...moments, it is there all the time, bringing order in everything that it is doing. And in this there is great beauty, beauty that is not in the hills and the trees and the museums, in the pictures, or in music, because it is a thing that is beauty and therefore love. That's...

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    ...form, clean cut face, healthy, full of sparkling eyes and smile and sense of dignity? There is the beauty of a mountain, of a tree, or the running waters. When does one see such great beauty? You may go to all the museums of the world, and the speaker has visited many, many museums and everybody says 'What a marvellous picture that is, how...

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    ...away for the moment all your problems. There is no self wondering, worrying, talking to itself, there is no entity, the self, the me, looking. At that moment when the self is not, there is great beauty. Right? I wonder if you follow all...

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    ...not chattering. This beauty is truth, this beauty is goodness. And we search for it all over the earth in different ways, following various leaders, scriptures and obeying and disobeying, pursuing various pleasures - all that denies surely the great beauty and the immensity of life. Why is it that we have reduced this immensity of life, which is...

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    ...in the way you look at it? Is it in the picture? Is it in the face of a person? When you see a marvellous mountain against a blue sky, with great depth of valley and snow-capped peaks, when you look at all that great beauty, for a moment you have forgotten yourself. The mountain is so vast, so extraordinarily lighted by the morning sun, catching...

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    K: No, I only said, my consciousness is made up of all the things that thought has put together there: the nationalities, the racial prejudices, the beliefs, the ideals, anxieties, all that is the movement of thought, which includes emotional and all that, all that is the content of my consciousness.

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    K: So I am saying, as my consciousness is the consciousness of the world, because in essence it is filled with the things of thought, sorrow, fear, pleasure, despair, anxiety, attachment, detachment, hope, it is a turmoil of confusion, a sense of deep agony is involved in it all. And in that state you cannot have any relationship with any human...

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    K: Do we know consciousness, first of all, with all its content, or only part of it, not the whole content? You understand my question? That is, my consciousness is made up of all the traditions, superstitions, belief, illusions, suspicions, anxiety, and so on, all my consciousness is that, put there by thought. Right? Would you agree to this? Not...

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    So, if my consciousness is the common ground on which all the human beings stand, then I am the entire humanity. That is logical, that is a fact. My thinking, which I have considered separate, mine, my thinking is common to all mankind. Thinking. I may think in one way (sound of train) You must be clear on this too. We said consciousness is...

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    And as we said yesterday, our brains, our consciousness which is part of our brain, part of our emotions, sensations, sensory responses, all that is our consciousness: the grief, the sorrow, the pain, the loneliness, the fear, the pleasure, the ache, the uncertainty, the confusion, the turmoil, the particular deity you worship - all that is contradiction in our daily life, is part of this consciousness.

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    ...any sense of deep security. It is the same in Asia, with every human being there, it is the same in India, it is the same in America, in Russia. So our consciousness is common to all mankind. Please do listen to this. You may be hearing this for the first time and so don't please discard it. Let's investigate it together, let's think about it...

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    K: Death we say is not only the ending of the organism, but the ending of all the content of the consciousness and the consciousness which we know as it is now.

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    ...it means do we see the importance of having space? Right? To find out one must go into this question of how you observe your own consciousness. Right? How do you observe that which you are? You understand my question? How do you observe a tree? There is that tree behind me or in front of you. How do you observe it? Not only there is a visual...

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    ...experiences which I have had, the hurts, the delights, the remembrances and so on, so on. That is the past. Right sir? That is my consciousness, that's our consciousness - it is not my consciousness, it is our consciousness. So can that consciousness with all its content, which is my belief, my dogmas, my hopes, my fears, my longings, my illusions...

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    If I can change the content of my consciousness it will obviously affect the consciousness of others. And the content of my consciousness makes up my consciousness. The content is the consciousness; the content is not separate from consciousness. So is it possible for me, for a human being, living in this world, with all the travail, with all the...

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    ...ground on which all humanity stands, because all humanity suffers, like you. And that consciousness, which is the ground upon which all of us stand, unless there is a movement away from that consciousness you are merely contributing further to that consciousness. And therefore death means - you answer it, I am not going to answer, I have put the...

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    So the much more complex problem is, which I didn't want to deal with this morning, perhaps we can do it another day, tomorrow or next week: which is can the mind, which is the seat of all consciousness, can the mind free itself from the known, which is the consciousness? Yes sir?

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    And from that: is it possible to bring about a change, not only change, a transformation, a mutation in the whole of consciousness. Our consciousness being all the things that thought has put in, has created - the Gods, the fears, the pleasures, the loneliness, the sorrow, all the complexities that thought through the millennia has produced, which...

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    Is our consciousness, your consciousness, which you have accepted as separate, is it so and what is the nature of your consciousness? Please, as we said, look at it, together. The consciousness that we think is separate from the rest of mankind, that consciousness is the sensory responses - part of it, sensory responses. And also those sensory...

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    And also we said that our brains, which evolved through millennia upon millennia, our brains which is the centre of all our thinking, which is the centre of all our reactions and actions, it is the centre also of all of our consciousness. That brain which has extraordinary capacity in one direction, in the direction of war, science, medicine,...

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    K: Away. Then who keeps the - I won't make it complicated for you. So you concentrate on a book and other thoughts come in. Right? Then what do you do?

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    Then also the book is telling you a great deal. Right? And can you hear what the book is saying? You understand what I am saying? Hear the song of the book - have you understood? It is telling you something, obviously, this enormous story it is telling you. But you must be capable of hearing it, not only reading it but capable of hearing this...

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    ...Good! At last somebody says yes. You are following not the speaker. You are following the book which is yourself, that you are living in a disorderly way, that you are in perpetual conflict. That conflict expresses itself as ambition, fulfilment, conformity, identification with a person, with a country, with an idea, and never living with the...

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    So, then the problem arises also, which I am going to go into presently, which is, how you read the book, whether you are separate from the book. You understand? When you pick up a novel or a thriller, you are reading it as an outsider, turning the pages over, with all the exciting story and so on, but here the reader is the book. You understand...

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    K: No, if you don't understand, don't say, yes, I'll explain it more. That is, I want to look at the book, as a teacher I want you to look at the book, but you are not looking at the book, your mind is on that. So there is conflict and there is struggle, there is annoyance, there is anger. Right? Right?

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    Now, I don't want you to look at the book, I am your teacher, but I want to teach you something entirely different: not the book, not to look out of the window, but I want to teach you something else. Right? Now listen, I'll tell you. I have a book in front of me which you must look at also, but your eyes, your ears, are outside - the lizard, or...

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    ...each other this, I am not telling you it is, or it is not, but we are asking, enquiring, exploring, into this question. It is distorted if I have a motive in reading the book and wanting to change what is in the book. Because if the observation has already come to a conclusion that the end of the book must be this, or that there are certain...

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    ...What an easy way out, isn't it? Can I find out what I want to do? And what is it I want to do? Write poems? Paint pictures? Go round the world begging? I want to write a book, paint. I want to write a book: what is my motive for writing a book? To earn a livelihood? So what is my motive which tells me I want to do...

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    So, how do I read the book? That's the question. How do I read the book? You don't read at all. Right? There is no book to read if you have come to that point.

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    As you see your face in the mirror when you comb your hair or shave, is there a mirror in which everything is reflected very clearly, distinctly, so that the book reflects in the mirror? You understand? You understand what I'm asking? Oh my lord, don't go to sleep, please. Suppose I don't know how to read that book, because my brain is slightly...

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    ...(Laughs) Quite right. Of course it does. That is, you want to look out of the window, which is much more fun, and the poor teacher says, look at your book, concentrate on your book. Right? Now what happens? Suppose I am your teacher - I am not, fortunately (laughter) - I am your teacher, and you are looking out of that window, or looking at that...

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    ...security, I am therefore frightened, I don't want to learn. This is what you are all doing. I have found great delight in my writing a book and I know I function from fragmentation but that book gives me fame, money, position and for God's sake keep out. Don't talk to me, don't disturb me. The house is burning - you follow? - but don't disturb...

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    ...which means any motive. Therefore it requires an extraordinarily attentive mind. Right? Are we moving together? It may be something new, or something you haven't heard before, or you have read it in some book or other. You know it would be marvellous if you had read no book. Personally I haven't. If you have read no book at all, you have heard no...

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    ...go into it. Please have patience. And if you are really serious don't just attend one talk and say, I have understood it, or he's talking nonsense, and walk away; you have to listen to the whole, you have to read the whole book. You have to, as the commercial people say, you have to buy the package! Not just one part of it, which may suit you,...

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    ...Near East and here, we are incapable of reading the whole story of mankind which is ourselves. And is it possible for us to read this book which has been handed down generation after generation for many, many millennia, to read the story which we are? Not leave one chapter under unread, but read from the beginning to the end, the whole movement of...

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    K: So unless we understand disorder, the nature of disorder, the structure of disorder, we can never find out what is order. Out of the understanding of disorder comes order. Not first seek order, and then impose that order on disorder. I don't know if I make myself clear.

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    ...through negation; not start with the positive, that is, we know what order is, which is a blueprint laid down by somebody. So, we say order can only come into being when we have understood the nature of disorder. When we have understood the nature of disorder - politically, religiously, in the family, in ourselves, economically, socially, the...

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    So order is only possible when we understand the nature of disorder. And the nature of disorder can be totally wiped out. If I am quarrelling with my wife, or the wife is quarrelling with me, I find out why we are quarrelling. If we like to quarrel, that's a different matter, but if want to stop quarrelling we say, 'Let's talk about it, let's see...

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    And what is the nature of disorder? Not what is order, because a confused mind can invent order and say, 'That is order.' A brain that is caught in illusions, as most people are, then it will create its own order out of confusion - right? So what is the nature of disorder? Why do we say there must be order and then be in disorder? You understand?...

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    What is disorder? Because where there is disorder, there can be no love, where there is fear there is no love, where there is mere search for the continuity of pleasure love cannot possibly exist. So one has to enquire, if you are at all serious and very, very honest: what is the nature of disorder, why we live in such disorder.

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    ...actually in one's life, we must find out not what is order, but what is disorder. Because if one understands the nature of disorder, really, from that comprehension, from that insight, from the total holistic view of disorder, then from that arises order. You understand? It is not that one seeks order, then you follow a blue print, then you look...

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    So order comes naturally, sweetly, without your invitation, when you understand the structure and the nature of disorder. Right? Disorder. As we said, belief is a complete disorder and yet you will go on. You hear the truth of this, and you will go on with your belief, because to you that has become extraordinarily important, in that you take...

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    K: When you are not absorbed totally in what you are doing, then there is disorder. Look at the varieties of opinions we are going to have. Listen to it, listen, when you have varieties of opinions, that is the very nature of disorder: so opinion is disorder. No?

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    ...order on disorder, in which there is contradiction and a discipline, a suppression - you follow - all that follows. All right? So I must find out what is disorder, what causes disorder, what is the nature of disorder. What do you think is...

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    K: I don't know if I am making my question clear. I can have order in myself, by careful observation, self-study, self-investigation, and understand the nature of disorder, and the very understanding, the very insight of it dispels that disorder. And that's one level of order.

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    That is: when one understands the nature and the structure of thought, and the things that thought has put together in this world - as racial minority, as colour difference, national divisions and so on - when thought recognises its limitation and remains within that limitation and so there is freedom from thought, then what takes place? And what...

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    ...it, you are going ahead of your problems. I have a problem. I have a problem of violence, I want to understand it completely, totally, so that the mind is entirely free from violence altogether, completely, and it can only understand it by understanding what is the structure of thought. It is thought that is breeding violence: it's my house, my...

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    ...if thought can bridge all these various fragments, can bring about an integration between all these factors? Can it? So one has to find out what is the nature and the structure of thought before we say that thought can or cannot? Thought, can thought, the thinking, the mentation, the intellectual process of reasoning, can such thought bring about...

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    ...don't understand what is thinking, you will never be able to delve deeply into that which is beyond thought. So we have to understand the nature, and the structure of thought, why thought has such extraordinary importance in our life. We have emotions but thought recognises those emotions, classifies them, good and bad, worthwhile and noble and so...

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    So a man who would live totally differently must understand the whole nature and structure of thought. Thought is measurable. And if we live only at that level, then our life is shallow, meaningless. You can go to the moon and kill each other, it has no meaning. Or go to the office everyday for the next forty years - just think of it! And that's...

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    K: What do you mean by the structure of thought. The tent is the structure of thought - right? - depending on the stress, strain, the proportions, and the necessity, the structure. The tent is independent of thought. I mean by structure also the movement of thought which imagines, which builds, which foresees, which lays down a structural path to...

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    ...a difference totally untouched by thought - is there such an instrument? And to find out one must be very, very clear, the nature and the structure of thought, its responsibility, its usage, where it is limited, and recognise its limitation and move away from that limitation. Then one can begin to enquire whether there is totally a different...

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    JK: Of course. That's why, sir, I feel if once we grasp the nature of thought, the structure of thought, how thought operates; what is the source of thought, and therefore it is always limited, if we really see that then...

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    ...other? Movement implies time. Thought, implies measurement. So thought is a movement, time and measure. Right? And what is the process of thought? What is the nature and the structure of thought? Because that's our life. We act, we live according to certain patterns laid down by thought, consciously or unconsciously, deep down. And it seems to one...

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    ...to find out. We like to think there is something beyond thought, something extraordinary - god, spark of divinity, something utterly beautiful, romantic. That is all the structure of thought. But to find out if there is something beyond thought I have to know the right place of thought, I have to know the limits of...

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    ...will come to that later. But we are examining the very structure of thought, not your thought - because it is fairly obvious what your thought is, because you have been programmed, as an engineer, as a poet, as a scientist, as a housewife, as a scholar, as a religious man, a guru, you have been trained, trained, trained. And if you begin to look...

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    ...itself from something which it has created? I don't know if you are following this. Don't you say, 'I must control'? And the 'I' is the structure of thought, that which he is controlling is also the structure of thought. I wonder if you see this. Please, do see this very clearly. If we don't, let's examine it more. That is, let's go into it a...

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    If it is clear, we are asking then what is the mind, which has been conditioned by thought - all its culture is based on thought, whether religious, social, economic, environmental, family and all the rest of it, it is essentially the structure of thought - and when the mind realises the futility of analysis, the futility of time as a means of understanding the content of fear and pleasure, what is it to do?

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    ...as well as psychological. I may not have biological, physiological experience, but I might have psychological experience, which is what? Psychological, the psyche is the structure of thought as the 'me'. Right? Thought has put together a structure which is called 'me': the name, the form, the quality; all that is thought. So thought is a material...

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    ...we went into the question of thought. And I think it is very important to understand the whole nature and structure of thought because thought has created all the things with which we live. Thought is the essence of our existence. Thought translates our emotions, our sensory responses; thought has created the technological world and the world in...

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    K: Because it must empty itself without an effort. The moment there is an effort, there is an observer who is making the effort to change the content, which is part of consciousness. I don't know if you see that?

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    ...be aware, conscious, without any choice, just to observe? Right? And the reply to that, 'I will try'. And to that reply the speaker says, 'Don't try'. The moment you try you are making an effort. And when you make an effort you don't understand anything. Whereas if you don't make effort, but just see, perceive the actual. Right? And then you may...

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    And to bring about order is to understand disorder. And therefore, order is not according to a blueprint, according to some authority, or your own particular experience. And how this order comes about must obviously be without effort, because effort distorts.

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    ...what is one to do? If you are not to make an effort because you see the truth of it, that the more you make an effort the greater the travail of the self. It is the self that is making an effort to be free of itself, and therefore it is still involved in it, imagining that it will be free, imagining that it will be etc. etc. But it is still the...

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    ...communism, and so on, so on. That is on the increase because the good is not flowering. Right? Now to be aware of this fact without any effort - please the moment we make effort we are giving importance to the self, which is the bad (laughs). Right? So to observe the actual fact of the bad without any effort, just to observe it without any choice...

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    ...of what actually is, and to remain with it, then you have the energy to go beyond it - not 'you have' - there is energy to go beyond it. Therefore there is a transformation of 'what is' without effort. I wonder if you see it. This is really very important to understand because we make effort, all our life from childhood till we die we are making...

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    ...religious teacher has gone into it. They say ultimately you will be without effort, but you must make effort to reach the ultimate, therefore you must struggle, you must conform, you must discipline, you must starve, you must fast, you must - you know, all the rest of it - you must follow, accept authority. Seeing that, one begins to question it....

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    K: I desire that, and to achieve that I make an effort. That effort, the motive of that effort is desire. So will is desire. Right?

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    K: To the maker of the effort, who has already identified with something greater, and is making an effort to reach it. It is still the movement of thought.

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    K: You see that! It is all these tricks we are playing on ourselves. Do listen sir. Who is asking, who is saying all this? You make an effort to identify yourself with fear.

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    K: No, it won't, it won't. It will not if you... all right, let it come back. Go slowly, let it come back and again watch it, without making an effort. You get it?

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    First of all, the more effort is made to be free of the centre, the more - please listen to this - the more one makes an effort to be free of the centre, that very effort strengthens the self - right? Like those people who go off into meditation of various kinds, trying to impose something upon it and that 'me' then captures that, identifies with...

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    So to see the truth of it. Not tomorrow, not, 'I'll think about it,' but actually now as immediately see the truth of it is to end this whole business of division between me and you and we and they. Then you'll find one can live completely, deeply without violence, without effort. A mind that is making an effort endlessly is not living at all.

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    So, when there is complete order in our life, which is the beginning of meditation, and one understands the nature of awareness, concentration and attention, then all effort has come to an end - all effort. When you put everything in order there is no effort. So the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet - uninvited, not cultivated, something totally...

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    ...does attention take place? Obviously not through effort, right? When you make an effort to be attentive, it is an indication that you are inattentive and trying to make that inattention become attention - you understand? I am tired of these explanations! (Laughter) Personally I have never learnt about any of all this nonsense. Personally nobody...

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    ...may be one of the fundamental reasons of our conflict, of our ignorance. Not the knowledge of outside, technological knowledge, scientific knowledge, medical knowledge, and so on, but the accumulated knowledge of humanity which is the whole burden of the past. That may be one of the basic causes of conflict. We have talked a bit about it and we'll...

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    So, knowledge has been accumulated through time - scientific knowledge, technological knowledge, knowledge of a language and so on. To learn a language I need time. To learn any technological I must have time, and so on and on. Knowledge, which is the product of time, must exist, otherwise I can't do anything, I can't talk to you, I can't...

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    ...The brain can function happily, easily, without effort, if it feels completely secure. Right? So it has found security in knowledge - right? - knowledge being technological knowledge, in book knowledge. So it says: as long as I have knowledge, I am secure - right? - which means knowledge implies accumulating information and gathering information,...

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    The necessary things are knowledge - how to drive a car, how to speak a language, technological knowledge - please follow this carefully - technological knowledge, the knowledge of reading, writing, and all the things involved in that, but in our human relationship, between man and woman, every incident in that relationship is registered. Right?...

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    ...So what shall I do? What shall I do as an ordinary man, I realise technological knowledge and all the rest of it, but knowledge which I have accumulated, which is divisive, which is destructive, which is rather petty, and yet I hold on to that and I realise I must let it go but I can't. What shall I do? I think this is the average person's problem...

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    ...may repeat, we must be absolutely clear of the function of knowledge. You have accumulated within the last hundred and fifty years more technological knowledge than ever before, tremendous knowledge, otherwise you couldn't have gone to the Moon, spaceship and so on, so on. You have invented, man has invented all the terrible instruments of war,...

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    If one sees this very clearly, that thought which has created the modern as well as the ancient civilisations, thought which is the response of memory, thought which is physical as well as chemical, if that thought which has built the whole human structure of behaviour, technological knowledge, technological activity and the science and so on and so on, the movement of that thought, which is time, which is measure, is the world of reality.

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    ...otherwise you can't go home, otherwise you couldn't write a letter, we couldn't speak in English together, understand each other. Scientific knowledge, technological knowledge is absolutely necessary to function. We see that. That is, if you would communicate in Italian, you must learn Italian - gather, study the meaning of words, the verbs, how...

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    ...form of conclusion. But when one sees actually, in daily life, how knowledge is so extraordinarily limited, you may have technological knowledge, and you must have, and to that knowledge more can be added, it can be constantly expanded, but is there the accumulation of psychological knowledge from which action takes place? You understand? Are we...

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    Now all your religion says, suppress senses - right? - suppress the reaction of the senses. We are saying quite the contrary, which means the awakening of all the senses, not one particular sense, so that there is total reaction of all the senses when you see the tree. When you look at that tree with all your senses there is no centre from which...

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    ...urge that human beings have, of which we are slaves. When you sit under these trees and look at the beauty of the light, although it is somewhat hot unfortunately, you have a great sense of sensation, don't you - your senses are awake if you are alert, your senses respond to all this. So the sensation of these trees, the light, the hills, the...

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    ...up to that. If you don't mind. Because unless you understand the sensory responses, whether the sensory responses are broken up - you follow? - or is there the response of all the senses together? If there is response of a particular sense, sensation, then what takes place? You understand? When there is only the reaction of a scent, through the...

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    So, we are going to find out what is the relationship between thought and the responses of the senses. Right? What are the senses? Now, please, I'm going to talk about it we are going to talk about it, just follow it because it is important to understand this. Through tradition, through so-called scriptures, through authority, we have suppressed...

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    ...one or two sensory responses, that very limitation creates a narrow outlook. But if you look with all your senses, at a tree, at a sky, at a cloud of an evening full of light and great beauty with all your senses, then in that observation, there is no self, the 'me'. It's only when there is partial responses of the senses, then that very...

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    So we are asking: is there an observation of the senses without any form of thought identifying itself with a particular sensation? You understand? Sensations are natural. If you have no sensations you are utterly paralysed - perhaps most of us are, only in one particular direction, sexual or another direction. But we are talking of the movement...

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    Have you ever observed the new moon or the rising moon with all your senses? Or only you say, 'How beautiful that is', or never look at it. Have you ever seen something with all your senses awakened? Perhaps not, but if you have, in that activity when all the senses are fully in action there is no centre as the me. Right? Oh, you don't understand...

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    ...dissolved, immediately. The speaker says, it can, otherwise you are you are playing with words. That means your mind must be extraordinarily alert. Right? Your senses must be fully active. No? Are you all asleep? Are you being mesmerised by the speaker? (Laughter) Sir, look, our senses which we kind of disregard, or cultivate one special sense; we...

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    ...we are enquiring first into what is desire, not the object of desire, which varies according to every person, but the very movement of desire. We have cultivated one or two senses to dominate other senses. Right? You must have noticed that. Either your taste or your perception with your eyes and so on. One or two senses dominate and usurp or give...

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    Apart from all this, how do we use our senses? What are our senses? Or we are only operating with one or two senses? You may appreciate music, delight in it, be enraptured with the lovely sound of a great song, but we are totally blind, have no sensitiveness to architecture, to the beauty of the earth; or if you appreciate the beauty of the earth,...

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    ...at it as though you are different from it. Of course, when I look at it I am not the tree, fortunately, or unfortunately. But can I look at it without the word, with all my senses responding to the totality of that beauty. Right? So perception means not only observing with all the senses, but also to see, to observe, or be aware that there is a...

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    So the problem arises, sir, out of this: why is it that we never meet anything, especially when you see a tree or the mountains, or the movement of the sea, with all your senses highly awakened. Why? Is it not that we live always partially? That is, we always live in a limited sphere, limited space in ourselves. It's a fact. So to look, if you...

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    All religions have suppressed the senses. Right? Face the fact, sirs - control your senses, don't yield to them. The speaker was walking behind a group of sannyasis in Kashmir at one time. There was marvellous blue sky, clean air, lots of wild flowers - air was scented with them, the smell of the hills and the groves and the valleys, the smell of...

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    So is it possible that all our senses work together totally, harmoniously? That is the first question, because our whole structure is based on senses, perception, taste, touch and all that. Now if there is imbalance in our senses, our brain, our mind is affected, naturally. And from this imbalance there is neurotic activity. So is it possible -...

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    ...but when thought interferes with it, then it becomes desire. So the question is: can we perceive, see a mountain, a tree, water, man, woman with all your senses and not allow thought to interfere and therefore the activity of the senses are not fulfilled through desire, image and action? Are we capturing some of this, what we are talking about?...

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    K: Probably. So one's relationship with another is, when one realises, the activity of relationship in which each one is helping the other to break down the trap, to undo the trap.

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    K: Not only that, sir. Our minds are becoming more mechanical, more caught in the trap, our education is - you know what it is producing, you know all about that. So what do we mean by deterioration, degeneration, decline - from what?

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    ...do I - no - the unconditioning of the mind doesn't become another form of conditioning. You have understood? I move away there is a movement away from this trap, and not be caught in another trap. I am a Hindu, I say it's absurd and become a Catholic; or I am a Catholic and say, what silly stuff and I join Hinduism or Buddhism, or become a Muslim....

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    K: No, but if you realise you are in a trap, and that causes a great deal of pain both physically and psychologically, and another realises, and you two have to live in the same house, what takes place? We are helping each other to break down the trap. And the intensity of that trap, and the pain of it, is making us very active.

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    K: So it avoids that trap. That is sanity: to avoid a trap is sanity. Is there an activity which is totally independent of the content? We are saying, that activity, is it part of the brain?

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    K: You are not answering the question. I am a mother. I see my children caught in this trap, or being attracted to the trap, and I see the danger, I see the horror, I see the misery of it. What am I to do?

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    So from discontent not to allow that flame to be smothered in any trap, and to understand the nature and the structure of insight. And that can only happen when you are not caught in any trap. Right?

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    K: Yes, you are in a trap. The trap of the rat race - right? - the trap of what humanity is doing - wars, talk about peace, prepare for wars, armaments. Right? Talk about non-violence, go to temples, do everything to prepare for war. Right? All your money, your taxes, go into that. Don't you know all this? Of course. So what are you discontented...

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    ...in a little way but in identifying himself with the State, with God, with social activity, with the country, with a series of beliefs? Obviously not. And yet that is the trap in which we are caught. And can we be aware of that trap, really aware, not because somebody describes it, be aware of the trap in which we are caught and break the trap? And...

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    K: I never thought, when I was educated in England and all the rest of it, that I was European. I never was caught in that trap. I don't know how it happened, I was never caught in that trap.

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    ...out together, we are thinking over these problems together. Not only thinking together, but going beyond that. Because the intellect has a certain value, its capacity is to discern, evaluate, distinguish, calculate, design, remember. That is the intellect. And if the intellect predominates our life then that brings about imbalance. And if our...

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    ...means you must now discard the instrument to find out a different kind of instrument. Up to now we have used the intellect as an analytical means to find out why man suffers, why man is in conflict, the intellect and the intellect is a fragment of the total. Man isn't just an intellect. There is all his nervous organism, his emotions, his - you...

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    ...No, we've monkey tricks. What has happened, not only to the intellect, to the brain, but to the body? I have to talk - you don't learn. If the speaker doesn't come any more, dies, anything happens, what is going to happen, how are you going to learn? Learn from another yogi? No, sir, therefore, learn now - learn. What has happened to a mind that...

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    One of the basic causes of this degenerating, frightening, corruption of human beings is his intellect. You are following this? The word 'intellect' implies the capacity to think, to reason, to choose, to have the urge to capture. Intellect is the whole, is the instrument of thought. Right? It's not my opinion I am putting forth. It's a fact. We...

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    K: Of course sir, justifies, condemns. But I may be greatly emotional but intellect comes along and says, look, be careful, try to control yourself. So intellect always dominates, which is thought. No? Oh lord! Right sir, let's go into it.

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    ...pleasure all that, enthusiasm, sentimentality, do you live in that world? And when you do live in that world, and when it gets rather disorderly then the intellect comes in and then you begin to control it, say, 'I must, I must not', but intellect always dominates.

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    Krishnamurti: Thought, the intellect, that dominates the world. And therefore intelligence has very little place here. When one thing dominates, the other must be subservient.

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    The principal, the active cause of this degeneration is - don't accept it or deny it but just listen to a story which your son is telling you, or your girl is telling you - is that the intellect has become so dominant, so powerful, that the intellect with all its capacity to think clearly, to act clearly, with all its activity of thought, that has predominated the world and is predominating the world, that is the basic cause of decay because intellect is only a part of our whole being.

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    K: Sir, the questioner asks: is the investigation into ourselves, into our problems, into our relationships, into our very ideas and all that, is that not a movement of the intellect. That's what his question is. And therefore the investigation is limited. Right? Because if it is from the intellect, it is limited. And then he asks: is there a way...

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    K: Between the intellect and thought. What is the difference between the intellect and thought. You see, I am answering all the questions - why don't you answer it?

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    ...for yourself the cause of this conflict. Please listen carefully, the cause. Right? Why man, you, live in conflict. Now, when you enquire into the cause of it, you are employing the intellect as an instrument of analysis, aren't you? Right? Are you following all this? You are using intellect as an instrument of analysis with which you hope to find...

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    K: Use your own intellect. Use your own intellect, which is part of the mind. Which is, we are speaking in English. You and the speaker understand English, so the understanding, verbal understanding is part of the intellect, which is thought. You translate what you hear in English and that becomes the understanding, verbal understanding of what is...

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    K: I want to find out what is harmony - between the mind, the body and the heart, (inaudible) - total sense of being whole, without fragmentation, without the over-development of the intellect, but the intellect operating clearly, objectively, sanely, not that, and the heart not sentiment, gooey, emotionalism, outbreak of hysteria, but has a quality in it of affection, care, love, compassion, you know, vitality, and the body has its own intelligence and uninterfered by the intellect or by taste - all that.

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    Now to come back to earth: you see we never look at life as a tremendous movement, our own life as a tremendous wide - with a great depth, a vastness. We have reduced our life to such a shoddy little affair. And life is really the most sacred thing in existence. To kill somebody is the most irreligious horror. To get angry, to be violent with...

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    ...one has to enquire into what is pleasure and what is pain. Because that's the basis of our life. You may cover it up; you may give a lot of other names - spiritual names and high-faluting sounds, but the actual fact is that you want power, position, prestige, more money, compare yourself with somebody greater, you know, the whole thing is based on...

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    ...of desire. It is really quite frightening in a sense, how people are using, are stimulating desire to acquire money, possession, the whole circle of a life that is utterly sophisticated, a life in which there is instant fulfilment of one's desire, and the feeling if you don't fulfil, if you don't act, there is frustration. So all that's involved...

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    ...facts. The other may be, may not be. I am going to go into all this. Don't - follow this right through. The continuity of our life through fifty years or hundred years, whatever the length of time, in that time we are destroying each other. Right? There is no love. These are actual facts. We are competing with each other, ruthless with each other....

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    ...in the least. Wasting. Sir, I'll say it to you, what I mean by wasting, there is nothing presupposing a goal. Am I not wasting my life when I am following somebody, when I accept authority, except the authority of surgeons and so on? Am I not wasting my life by following somebody? Because when I follow somebody that somebody is created by me. No?...

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    ...are specializing. You understand, sir? Don't you know this? If I sing, nothing but sing all day, however marvellously, I have specialised in that, my voice becomes marvellous but I know nothing about life, may know nothing about life, because my specialization keeps me in a narrow groove.

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    ...following all this? Please sirs, it is important to communicate, to understand with each other, because we need to change enormously, radically, fundamentally. We have this life to live. How you live now matters very much if you believe in reincarnation, what will happen to you in next life. But you don't believe in next life really, though you...

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    ...can be solved when there is global outlook, not nationalistic outlook, which is isolated, conditioned outlook. It is only when we see we are all humanity, we are all one, life is one, life is sacred, not my life and your life. So seeing all that, where shall I begin? I won't begin there, at the peripheral level. So I am beginning to enquire: is my...

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    ...of myself as my being, we are afraid that will come to an end. Does it come to an end? Does it have a continuity? The East has said it has a continuity, reincarnation, perhaps being born better next life if you have lived rightly. And you have here other forms of resurrection and a new way - you know, all that. After all if you believe in...

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    ...is order. And without order how can there be clarity? Right? Because part of this is the question of meditation. Without order in one's life, without being totally moral in one's daily activity, how can you even think of meditating? You understand? You may sit cross-legged for the rest of your life, breathe in a certain way which you have learned...

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    ...Yes. Over population, yes, need we go into all that? Over population, the destruction of the earth, you know, the whole ecology and everything. Is that why we have made life so narrow and limited? As a human being, having been to Oxford or Cambridge, or whatever university, when you have got a degree, a job, and for the rest of your life, till...

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    ...sorrow, and sorrow can end only when you look at sorrow, observe it, live with it, look at it, take diligent care of it, and when there is order. So life is one movement, not order, love, and death. It's all one. And our mind, being fragmented, look at life in this way, broken up. So, security, which is so essential for the brain, and it is...

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    ...my thought, I am more than any reaction.' - right? Are you? I know tradition says you are and you like the idea you are also more than all this business, so you cling to that and you hope the 'more' will be born next life in a better house, greater power, greater position, nearer god. You understand? All this is a matter of belief and thought -...

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    K: You will be doing other interesting things? Which means you are not interested in mathematics! (Laughter) So you realise what you are doing with your life? It's your life: school, college, university, passing some exams, adding some alphabets after your name, and for the rest of your life you do this.

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    ...will it end sorrow? Or the understanding of all causation, the investigation of all causation - you are following? - our life is based on causation: I do this because in doing this I will get a reward; if I do this I will be punished. So our life is essentially based on various causes, and where there is a cause there must be an end. So we cling...

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    ...with their systems, with their philosophies are all the activity of thought and through thought there is no solution. It is not how to stop thought, but to find out if there is an energy which is not the energy of thought.

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    ...there is something permanent, something that is timeless and so on. It requires not only physical energy but the energy of intelligence. Intelligence is not, as we have often repeated, the energy of thought. Thought has been tremendously intelligent, creating a computer, in putting this television, or the microphone, or the implements of war,...

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    ...has brought about great hygienic benefit, communication, rapid transport and all that. The brain is infinitely capable, and that capacity, that energy of thought has created this world of technology, with all the problems it involves, social, environmental. And thought also has created havoc in our daily life, in our relationship with each other,...

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    K: Yeah. I should have thought so myself. (Laughter) You see how we divide everything? We divide spiritual energy, mental energy, the energy of insight, the energy of thought.

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    Personally one has spent a great deal of time about this matter; not only has one gone through this with various scientists and psychotherapists, analysts, to find out if there is an energy which is not the energy of thought, because the energy of thought, being in itself fragmentary, because thought is fragmentary, must inevitably create a structure - social, economic, religious - essentially fragmentary.

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    ...is through conflict. That is all we know: the energy of thought, the energy that comes in contradiction, in opposing, in duality, the opposites, and the energy of friction - all that is in the world of reality, reality being the things with which we live daily, both psychologically as well as intellectually and so on. Right? I hope we are, we can...

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    K: Keep to that word, keep to that word. Man has used the energy of thought in technology. Right? Right? It is the energy of thought, therefore limited.

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    ...to be alert, aware, sensitive, to understand this separative, dualistic life of resistance. To be so alert needs a great deal watchfulness, and that means energy, both physical energy as well as the energy of thought, the energy of great sensitivity. How is all this energy to come about, knowing that one wastes energy in useless talk, indulging in...

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    ...and the search after pleasure, to put an end to all that one needs quite a different kind of energy. Not the energy of strife, not the energy of thought, not the energy of contention, argument, but a totally different kind of energy. And it is through meditation only that one comes upon this energy, which is not the product of...

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    We are not laying down, we are not the authority, we are just together, you and the speaker are investigating into a question which is: is there another kind of energy which is not the energy of thought in its movement as time, is there another kind of energy which will solve the problem of relationship, the problem of death, the whole human existence with all its complex problems?

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    ...to observe without the 'me' interfering with the observation. The 'me' that is the result of the past, the result of all our traditions, the result of our education, the result of our social, environmental, economic influence and so on - this 'me' that interferes with the observation. Now is it possible to totally eliminate in this observation...

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    K: Yes, we are saying that, we are saying, you are the result of all that, so you have to do something about yourself, because you are that.

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    K: Are you saying, sir, to make it brief, that you are the result of the traditions, troubles, the churches and all the rest of it over Europe, and you are the result of all that?

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    ...not a deliberate act. You know - we have not gone into all this, you see. Conscious meditation, taking a posture, certain posture, breathing carefully, concentrating, controlling, exercising one's will and determination, all that is self-centred movement to achieve a result. Right sir? And the result is already predetermined. Peace, whatever it...

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    We have filled our minds with all kinds of ideas of what we are - you are noble, ignoble, we are divine, we are experts - you know - filled ourselves. And this acceptance of what we are is the result of the movement of thought. Right? I will have to go into this again.

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    ...to read a single book about philosophy, psychology because everything is in you as a human being if you know how to look at yourself. Because after you are the result, your mind is the result of the collective. You are not individuals, are you? Individuality, the word means indivisible, an entity, a human being who is not fragmented, broken up,...

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    K: Mechanically. And become lazy, lethargic, don't care - you follow? So have you learnt the consequences, the result of separating yourself from fear?

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    ...the culture, the economic condition, the cultural education, all that, are you different from the rest of the group? Are you? Are we? Each one of us? Or are we the result of all that? You understand? Am I the result of all of India, of Europe, of America, because one has lived in these parts for most of one's life, am I the result of all that? You...

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    Now I realise that I am confused, and it is not the fault or the result of any outward confusion. It is a fact. Now what am I to do? Right? Now see how we have progressed, how we have gone into this: what am I to do. I know I am confused, what am I to do?

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    K: But after, all that you are thinking, you are the result of the culture, the climate, the food, the environment, the economic conditions, your grandparents, you are the result of all that.

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    So my question is: first, can this mind, which is the result of this civilisation and this culture, and therefore has very little meaning, can the mind become aware of it choicelessly, observe? And yet I have to live here, I have to do things every day. How is this possible? You are following all this? First of all we must be very clear that the...

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    K: And life isn't going to leave them alone. So he gets frightened and establishes another mechanical habit. Now do you see this whole thing? And therefore an instant action breaking it all away and therefore order. The brain that says, at last I have an order which is absolutely indestructible.

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    ...It must register certain facts, how to drive a car, write letters and so on and so on, technology and so on. Then the brain has realised that putting order, giving order to register only things that are necessary, which is to bring order. Right? Then we can proceed to find out why the brain or the psyche, psychologically registers. Does it bring...

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    ...Even psychologically, please. So, we are saying, dreams are a continuation of our daily conflicts, miseries, confusion, carried over during sleep, during which the brain is still active because it is trying to bring order while you are asleep. You understand? I wonder if you Because it says, 'I can only function if there is order. If there is...

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    So order is absolutely necessary for a sane mind, and that order comes only when there is no will - please watch this - when there is no ideology, when there are no activities of idiosyncrasies. Therefore there is no sense of fulfilment, or identification with myself or with something. Right?

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    ...a world that is immeasurable, which has nothing whatsoever to do with entertainment. That requires great care, hesitant observation, step by step. That brings about order in one's life. And when there is order in your house, there is order in society. But now we want order in society, in environment while we are disorderly. That is what the...

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    So the mind then, thought then, brings order in the world of reality, you understand? - because order means stability, security psychologically, which then will bring about security and order outwardly - not the other way round, I wonder if you see that?

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    So unless you have laid the foundation in your daily life, the foundation is order, and out of this order, please, comes love. Not out of your chaos, confusion, not giving such tremendous importance to sex, to pleasure. Sex has its place, pleasure has its place, but when that becomes supreme you have chased away love. Right, sirs?

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    ...process of life is based on this unfortunate effort to comply, conform, imitate. The word 'discipline' means actually to learn. When you learn, that very act of learning is its own order, creates its own order. So the conformity principle disappears. When there is no interference of thought but the complete observation with all the senses, then...

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    So order, consideration, how one behaves, how one talks, how one walks, and out of that comes naturally respect for each other. So order in his room - you understand, sir? - order in his clothes and so on and so on. So I would begin with that so that he understands order. Not imposed discipline. I wonder are you understanding something? Because...

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    ...one must be very clear how you approach. If you approach it totally freely, freedom, without wanting something out of it, then you can investigate whether thought can bring order, if thought cannot bring order, the very realisation that thought cannot bring about order is intelligence, isn't it. I wonder if you see that. You see that, don't...

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    ...and the ending of suffering, and thereby have that extraordinary thing called love and compassion. Then when there is order in our life, not induced by thought - thought can never bring about order - but only perception of the fact and nothing else. And out of that order, which means having a clear, unprejudiced, unbiased brain, then only, it...

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    ...about what we were saying yesterday? We were talking about order, and in a world that is so utterly confused, divided, in a world that is so violent and brutal, observing this, one should have thought that our main interest in life would be to bring about order, not only in ourselves but also outwardly. Order is not habit. Habit becomes mechanical...

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    ...I starve, all right but, you follow? - gosh, you people are so you are so frightened! Let's move. So I've brought order in my life, daily living, waking hours, there is order and therefore the brain is absolutely quiet, incorruptible in that state. And when it wakes up, it has got vitality - that is, not yours, but what I am...

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    ...so that there is a relationship, an actual relationship, not a relationship between two images. That is absolutely necessary. Then order, because order is moral, virtuous; without order you cannot possibly proceed further. Order means a brain that can function effectively, objectively, non-personally. Now having established this, which is order,...

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    So there must be order. And that is part of meditation. Order means beauty and there is so little beauty in our life. Beauty is not man made; it is not in the picture, however modern, however ancient it is; it is not in the building, in the statue, nor in the cloud, the leaf or on the water. Beauty is where there is order - a mind that is utterly...

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    ...very root of it. You are not used to that, so you have never done it, you are not used to it, so let us begin with the particular. Right? What would you take up, the particular fear, or confusion or unhappiness?

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    ...depress it and run away from it, as you're doing. So what is the cause, the source of fear? Think it out, sir, go into it for a minute. Take your fear, your particular fear, or fears - what is the root of it? Security, desire for more, it's all - you understand? So, if you haven't found it you will ask somebody like the speaker, what is the cause...

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    K: I have asked a question, madame, which is, we generally approach a particular fear with the remembrance of other fears. That's all. If we could stay with that for a minute and examine whether that resolves the problem of fear. Or is it possible to approach without the past remembrances of fear and can that be done? If it cannot be done, it is...

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    ...in which one of the factors is fear. Now how do you look at something totally - you understand? - not only the particular fear but the root fear, not only your particular idiosyncratic fears, your fears of various kinds, but the total human fear. How do you look at it? So we have to see what does it mean to look at something totally? You...

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    ...something. Right? When we understand the root of fear, fear about something disappears. You understand what I am saying? If I am afraid of the dark, that is my particular fear and I want that particular fear to be resolved. I am not concerned with the whole field of fear. But if I understand the whole field of fear the other thing doesn't exist. I...

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    ...what fear is. You know it, don't you? It is nothing new to you. And what fear does to each one of us. We may have our own pet fear, and we want our particular fear to be solved, but if we understand not the particular fear, but what is fear. In the larger the lesser is included. The lesser is my particular fear or your particular fear, but if we...

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    That is, you may have a particular fear, a very neurotic deep rooted fear of something - darkness, or precipice, or living alone, and so on, and if you want to resolve that one particular fear now, and you are only interested in that, then it would be futile to discuss the elimination of all fears. You understand what I am saying? So you must be...

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    K: You see you'll agree to anything. You are not responsible for yourself. You are not thinking out for yourself. I asked you most respectfully: what is your particular form of fear? Are you aware of it? Do you know it? Do you know your particular fear, sir?

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    ...demands a great many days to go into every aspect of every fear. But I think one can observe the quality of fear, the general fear, not a particular fear, observe the nature of fear, the structure of fear, not get lost in a detail or in a particular form of one's own fear. Because when we understand the nature and the structure of fear, then we...

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    So, now what shall we do? How shall I, as a human being, and you as a human being, be rid of this fear, the total fear, not a particular fear, but the whole nature and structure of fear?

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    ...there is fear there is the desire to hurt people, and so on. We are not talking therefore of a particular fear - please understand - not your particular fear - you may be afraid of your wife, or your husband, or your government, or the boss above you - but fear as a whole thing. Is that clear, that we are not thinking together about a particular...

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    ...what I am trying to - please let us try to understand each other. If the content of the conscious cannot be known completely, how can that consciousness which is superficial, which doesn't know itself completely, examine the unconscious with all its content, which is hidden? And you have only one means of examination, now. Which is, to look at the...

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    So together - and the speaker means together - we are going to examine, investigate, the content of our consciousness. That content makes you what you are. And without understanding the content of that you cannot possibly bring about right action, not possibly be able to face the crisis that is in front of us. Please understand this. The speaker...

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    ...because the artificiality then is the movement of thought. We are back into something, the good old business, therefore it is valueless. So is there a possibility of consciousness, its content, emptying itself? You understand? All right. Suppose my consciousness is filled with my pride, with my arrogance, what it has done, what it has achieved,...

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    K: Semantic. But I am asking: is it first of all possible to completely end the whole content of my consciousness, of human consciousness which has grown through millennia. And that content is all this confusion, vulgarity, coarseness, and pettiness, and triviality of a stupid life.

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    ...No, no, no, no, madame. No, that is speculation. Just let us Sir, please, let's follow this. I am all my content. The content is my consciousness. The content is experience, knowledge, the tradition, the upbringing, the nervous father, the brutal mother or the nagging mother, and the quarrel - you follow? - all that has been the content which is...

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    So, if that is so, that is, if my consciousness and yours, with all its content - the content in itself is contradictory, confused, struggling against each other: fact and non-fact, wanting to be happy, being unhappy; wanting peace, living without violence and yet being violent - our consciousness in itself is disorder. It is the root of...

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    ...it is limited? I have to find out. I am being challenged. I have got energy now, because when I am challenged I have got all energy. Does consciousness - put it differently - does consciousness realise its content? Does consciousness realise, its content is itself? Or I have heard another say, 'Consciousness is its content, its content makes up...

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    ...you have gathered, the knowledge, the attachment, the jealousies, the fears, the agonies, the ambitions, all that which you are is your consciousness. And the content makes up consciousness. That content is the 'me', the 'I', the self, the ego, and that they say in the East will be born next life. That is, if you behave now properly you will have...

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    ...that's one thing. Effort, when you make effort, it is a dissipation of energy. Right? So meditation is not concentration. Right? Is not practice, is not repetition but emptying consciousness of its content. You understand? The content is hurt, fear, pleasure and with all the implications of pleasure, the ending of sorrow. And from the ending of...

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    ...Listen to it, sir. What do you do then? There is a fact. The fact is the content makes up your consciousness. The content being a communist, a socialist, a Christian, Buddhist - you follow? - whatever it is - the father, the mother, the pressures of civilisation, the culture - all that is the content. And do you say, 'Yes, that is a fact'? Begin...

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    So consciousness is its content. The content makes up consciousness. Unless there is a radical change in that field of consciousness with its content, do what you will outside, Mao, whatever you do, will not alter the content and therefore bring about further misery, further chaos. So a mind that is aware of all this, the outer and the inner - the...

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    K: You are too quick. Ask yourself, if you will forgive me, ask yourself please, what is the content of your psyche, what is the content of your psychological world.

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    K: Isn't the content of your psyche your belief in god, or your not believing in god? Isn't the content of your psyche that you must be somebody? Isn't the content of your psyche the desire to be happy, the conflicts, the joys, the pleasures, the fears, the anxieties, the greed, the envy, the violence - isn't that the content of your psyche? That...

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    ...No, if you look - please, just listen. Your consciousness is made up of its content. Right? The content is your jealousy, anxiety, fear, love, hate, sexual demands, the whole human endeavour, struggle, pain, pleasure, sorrow, death, and so on. The whole of that is made up of all these little parts. Right? Now can that consciousness be aware of...

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    Look sir, have you observed the content of your own consciousness? You know, your consciousness. When are you aware of your consciousness? You understand? When are you aware of yourself - all right, let's put it that way, it is simpler. When are you aware of yourself? Only when you are in conflict, aren't you? Or only when you are pursuing...

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    K: Does it remain after the death of the brain, that is this awareness, this silence, does it remain after death. Find out! You see, this is what I mean, we want to find out from others.

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    ...sirs, it's time to stop. Consider your life and the ways of your behaviour, consider deeply what suffering is and what love is and death and you will then go, if you go into it very deeply, you will see the total movement of life, love and death. In that total movement there is no dying. It doesn't mean that you become immortal. Morality and...

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    ...- right? - now let's go on to something else, which is, he said, what is the relationship between death and meditation. Right? Are you interested in all this? Not interested, is it part of your life? You see, what you know let us approach death with total discontent. Right? Will you? That is, not accept any form of comfort, any form of...

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    And, the next question is - good Lord! Oh, we began at six - death. The first thing is to ask oneself, if you are interested, why human beings have excluded death from living. You understand my question? Why human beings from the ancient Egyptians to now, all the civilisations which have existed before have put death at the end - fifty, ten,...

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    ...book and he becomes immortal. His name becomes immortal. Or a politician - unfortunately politicians last, endure. We have related immortality as something beyond death - mortal and the immortal, beyond mortality, beyond death.

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    So death is a form of ending. And because we are frightened of it we invent life after death, and we have proofs and you know all the rest of it, which is all rather speculative, doubtful, suspicious. But if you could live with death, which doesn't mean suicide, live with death - morning, evening, day in and day out, live with it. So there is no...

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    ...they are poor, rich, powerful and so on. Together we are going to look at it. Look at it. Not asking for explanations - we will do that presently, later - but to look at this question which has troubled mankind from the time immemorial: death, the dying. Not what happens after the death, not enquire what is more important, which is what is before...

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    K: Oh Jesus! (Laughter) Why are we all laughing? Because a little boy asks what happens after death. (Laughs) We will talk about it another time, but now we are talking of what happens before death, not after. (Laughter)

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    Sir, we have never faced death. Oppenheimer, he knew Sanskrit, he said, 'I have become death'. You know that very well. And we don't understand death, either - which I haven't time to go into now. But we have become destroyers, and also benefit human beings at the same time. Right sir? I can't, please, I am not asking you to do anything, I am not...

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    In the same way I want to enquire what is death. I don't know what it means. I know what people have said about it. My son has died, my wife, husband, boy, girl, I know that. I have shed tears, felt loneliness, the misery, the appalling sense of wastage of life. Right? So I am going to find out what death means. Can my mind enquire into something...

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    You know, most of us are frightened of death: death, the unknown, death as the known which is the product of thought, death of which one is so frightened needs security and therefore believes in something which will give it comfort. If you are frightened of death then you must believe in reincarnation, believe. And to find out whether there is a...

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    So death is not in the future. Death is now when there is no time. When there is no 'me' becoming something, when there is no self-interest, egotistic activity, which is all the process of time.

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    ...Because that may be the absolute truth, that may be the ending of all time. Please, we are sharing this together, I am not taking a journey by myself. Is death something separate from living? Is death something totally opposite of existence? Is death the ending of all that one has built in oneself, that one has experienced, that one has observed,...

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    So we are enquiring together what is death; why death is associated with sorrow. You are following all this? The speaker is not leading you, he is not persuading you. I am bored with telling you that! So what is death? You must take the whole of it, not just dying. You must take the being born, living fifty, forty or sixty, seventy, ninety, or...

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    And we also have to learn about death because life includes death. Death isn't something apart from living. Death isn't something at the end of our life - old age, disease, accident, pain and then die. And we have separated death from living, from love, from the whole of our existence. Please see this. People are frightened even to talk about it....

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    ...is to live with that sorrow, pain completely without a single movement of thought. That is the ending of sorrow, which means the ending of knowledge which you have acquired, which has been slowly built up, so knowledge, the ending of knowledge, the ending of sorrow. I wonder if you understand. And is knowledge love? The picture, the image, the...

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    ...centre from which you act. The centre being the 'me' with all the things that we've included in that, as long as that exists there must be sorrow. So the ending of sorrow is the ending of 'me', the ego. Which doesn't mean the ending of 'me' implies callousness, indifference - on the...

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    The speaker says there is an end to sorrow, a total end to sorrow, which doesn't mean he does not care, indifferent, callous, but with the ending of sorrow there is the beginning of love. And you naturally ask the speaker: how? How is sorrow to end? When you say 'how' you want a system, a method, a process. Right? That is why you ask, 'Tell me how...

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    ...not casually, not merely verbally, but we are asking that question out of our heart, whether that sorrow can ever end. It can end completely. Sorrow - when the ending of sorrow there is passion. That very word 'sorrow' contains that word 'passion'. Where there is sorrow there cannot be passion. Where there is sorrow there cannot be love. Where...

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    ...passion? How do you have sustained movement of energy that is not dissipated by thought, by any kind of activity? And I think that only comes when you understand sorrow and the ending of sorrow, then compassion and love and all that. That intelligence is that energy which has no depression, none of the human...

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    ...that man has lived with and perhaps cultivated it, because he doesn't know how to resolve it. Now we are going to find out, share together this question and find out if there is an end to sorrow, because without the ending of sorrow there is no love. When there is love will you suffer for another? When there is love will there be sorrow? You might...

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    ...when one is aware of this with great attention sorrow has totally a different meaning. There is nothing to learn from sorrow. There is only the ending of sorrow. And when there is an ending of sorrow then there is love. How can I love another, love, have the quality of that love, when my whole life is based on memories, on that picture which I...

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    So a mind that is serious, the mind that has observed the world and itself - and this observation takes place only in relationship between you and another - and seeing the total disorder of our lives, of our misery, and the endless sorrow in which we are caught; and seeing the sorrow and the ending of sorrow, and the ending of sorrow is the beginning of wisdom.

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    ...in India, they explain it very carefully, the past lives and karma and all the rest of it. But that doesn't solve the problem. You live in sorrow, and the question is: can sorrow end, is there an ending of sorrow? Not get used to it, not accept it, not carry the burden of sorrow in your heart, but to find out for yourself whether there is an...

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    ...and broken down, there must be sorrow. There is no avoiding it or escaping it, it is there. Therefore it behoves us, if we are at all serious, that the ending of sorrow is far more important than the pursuit of pleasure, which the world is committed to. This vast entertainment industry which is spreading all over the world, sports, entertainment,...

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    ...from the thing observed, this division, there must be sorrow. That is, as long as there is no self-knowledge there must be sorrow. So the ending of sorrow comes about when there is total self-understanding. Don't make that into a formula. See how in sorrow there is such a great deal of self-pity: I have lost, I wish it were different, the...

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    So the understanding of sorrow is the ending of sorrow. Right? Sir, this requires a great deal of investigation into sorrow. Probably you have never shed tears. You have an explanation for tears. Right? Karma, some cause or other, but you have never actually suffered, felt the intense pain of it, because we are always seeking comfort, escape from...

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    ...when there is sorrow there is no love. When you are suffering, concerned with your own suffering, how can there be love? So one must ask this question, however difficult it is to find - not the answer, but the ending of sorrow.

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    The order in which we do not live, we live in disorder, as we talked about it yesterday; and we went into the question of desire, freedom from fear, and the nature of pleasure, and also we talked yesterday about the ending of sorrow, and from that ending, passion, not lust - passion, love and compassion arise, with the ending of sorrow. And that...

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    And the other day we talked about the ending of sorrow, and with that ending, compassion. And I think we ought to talk about various other things too, this morning. I hope you are all comfortable - it is pretty hot!

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...studies at San Diego State University where he teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition. Dr. Anderson, a published poet, received his degree from Columbia University and the Union Theological Seminary. He has been honoured with the distinguished teaching award from the California State...

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    ...this is all rather immature - sorry, forgive the word - any serious man must have must put his house in order. Right? And that must be complete order, not order in a particular direction, but order in the wholeness of man. If that can be done, and if that is necessary, because society as it is disintegrating and it's destructive and all the rest...

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    K: Don't agree with me, because I am not interested. The mind goes over the day because it wants to bring everything in order, otherwise when you sleep the brain works and tries to bring order in itself. Right? Because the brain can function only normally, healthily, in complete order. Right?

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    So from this arises the question: can - please listen - can the brain and the whole structure and the nature of the human being, can he have complete order, absolute order and absolute security? You follow? If he cannot, he will resist, because resistance means not to be hurt. You are following? So, can he have complete order? Order means complete...

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    ...disagree? Are we sharing this thing together, participating, or you are just casually listening. Because, I think it is very important to find out for oneself whether it is possible to live completely, totally in order, so that there is complete order. Like a machine that is not functioning properly is wasting energy. So, one asks oneself - and...

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    ...must create conflict with things that are moving. So, find out (the speaker is telling the friend) find out if you can live without a motive and yet learn all the time, till you come to a point when there is nothing to learn any more - we'll go into that presently - so that there is complete order. Order for most of us means conformity,...

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    ...we are now asking: what is order, because without order the brain cannot be secure. When there is disorder the brain is all the time trying to create out of this disorder some kind of order because it can only function in complete order at its highest excellence. Right? This is so. Now we are asking: what is order. We accept order as following...

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    Now when you don't separate sound from silence there is order, complete order - like the universe, it is everlastingly in order - sun rising, sun setting, the stars, the beauty of a new moon, the full moon, the whole universe is in order, it is only human beings who are in disorder because they have lost their relationship with nature, they have no beauty.

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    Beauty is complete order. But most of us have not that sense of beauty in our life. We may be great artists, great painters, expert in various things but in our own daily life with all the anxieties and miseries, we live a very, unfortunately a very disordered life. That's a fact. Even the great scientists, they may be very good, expert, in their...

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    Unless one has laid the foundation of order in our life - you understand, order, there cannot be order if there is fear, there cannot be order if there is any kind of conflict, unless our house, not the outer house, unless our inward house is in complete order, so there is great stability, no waffling around, great strength in that very stability, therefore in that order - then only one can ask what is true meditation.

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    So when there is complete order during the day the brain then hasn't to work, work while you are asleep to bring order. Then when there is complete order - I mean absolute order, not relative order - then the brain is renewing itself and the dreams, which for so many people become so extraordinarily important, do not take place, except very, very...

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    ...it, not how to suppress it, but to understand the nature of it, the structure of it, the beauty of disorder, and out of that comes order, which is living. So freedom is order, complete order. And that order has come into being through the understanding of disorder, not seeking order. If you seek order it becomes a principle, an idea, a formula,...

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    ...with the desire to learn from this disorder what is implied. Then when you go to sleep the brain hasn't to bring about order, because the brain demands order because it can only function sanely, logically in order, when there is complete order there is complete security. And when the brain is in complete security it functions efficiently. But our...

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    So when there is complete order during the day the brain then hasn't got to struggle to create order neurotically or order according to circumstances and so on, it is orderly. Therefore in that order there is complete security for itself and dreams then become merely a physical reaction - you have eaten wrongly or this or that, then dreams have...

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    But if you have put your house in order, complete order by understanding totally what is disorder, not understanding what is order, by understanding what is disorder, out of that comprehension, realization, awareness, and giving your total attention to the various contributory causes of that disorder, then order comes without your seeking order.

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    ...where thought is necessary, but also be free of thought so that it has an order of the universe. Sir, the universe, which is the rising of the sun and the setting of the sun, the new moon and the full moon, the bright stars, they are in complete order. Right? If the sun didn't rise tomorrow or for the next few days we would all be dead. There is...

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    ...influences, of the many cultures, many words, propaganda, influences. You are that. And if you know how to look, how to read, how to listen, how to see - the art of seeing, the art of learning, the art of listening - everything is there, right in front of you. But we don't have the energy, the inclination, or the interest. We want somebody to tell...

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    As we have talked very often, the art of listening, the art of seeing, the art of learning. The art of listening is to listen so that naturally everything is put in its right place. The meaning of that word 'art' means that: to put things where they belong. And the art of seeing is to observe without any distortion, obviously. If there is any...

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    ...No. Oh, lord. Sir, I don't want to enter into all this, it is too difficult. There are three arts one must learn: the art of observation, the art of hearing, the art of learning; they are not three separate things but we divide them for convenience. There's the art of listening, which means, I listen to what you say, I don't bring in my own ideas,...

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    ...preconceived judgement, opinion, to see actually 'what is', not your conclusions about 'what is'. Then the art of learning, not memorising, which becomes very mechanical, because our minds, our brains have already become so extraordinarily mechanical. So the art of learning implies freedom to observe, to listen without prejudice, without...

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    ...do you think is the greatest art, the supreme art? Is it the art of listening, the art of seeing, observing, perceiving and so on, and the art of learning? The art of hearing, the art of seeing, the art of learning. And what do we mean by seeing, observing, perceiving? I am asking. Please, together we are investigating into these questions, not...

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    ...this evening not only listen but observe your own thoughts, your own feelings, your own impressions, your experiences and see if they have any validity. And also there is the art of learning. Most of us learn by accumulating knowledge, facts, going through school, college, university, if you are so lucky, which is to memorise. But also there is an...

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    ...Oh yes, no, sir - forget attachment for the moment, don't bring that in. Do you want to find out, sir, the art of learning, the art - what it is, you know, the whole business of it. Do you want to learn? What am I to say? If you want to learn, if you want to learn the art of learning - right? - what price do you pay for it? Seven pounds a day?...

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    And also there is an art of learning. Isn't there? And what do we mean by learning? Generally it is understood that learning means memorising, accumulating, storing up, to use what you have stored up skilfully or not. That is generally called learning, memorising. School, college, university, or some technological subject, or learning a language,...

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    ...know we are talking about something very, very difficult. This requires a great deal of attention, a great deal of inward learning, which is discipline, it requires the art of learning. Learning is not merely acquiring knowledge, but learning implies a constant movement, freedom from knowledge to learn not more, learn something new. So there must...

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    So there is the art of hearing, the art of listening, and there is the art of learning. It is not difficult, all this. If you go into it you will see it for yourself. When we learn, we learn to acquire knowledge, and according to that knowledge act skilfully. When you go to school, college, university, that is the whole process of learning -...

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    ...without any movement of thought? Which is only possible if you put thought in the right place. And the art of learning, which means not accumulating, then it becomes knowledge, and thought, but the movement of learning without the accumulation. So there is the art of listening, the art of seeing, the art of learning, which means put everything...

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    So, as I said, there is the art of seeing, the art of listening and the art of learning. The learning is movement from the past to the present, modified, the future, and that is experiencing, and so on. This whole cycle is what we call learning. That is psychological learning as well as technological learning. Right? Which means what? The mind is...

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    So where there is the art of learning, where there is putting everything in its right place and therefore to listen without any conclusion, without any opinion - which are all distorting factors. And in that listening one discovers the false and the true, without any effort because when there is actual attention given to listening that very...

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    K: Sir, I am sure you are not theorising, therefore you are saying as a fact, where there is confusion there is choice. Right? That's a great thing to admit. You understand? It is not an intellectual admission, or acquiesce, or agreeing with something because you think it, but if you are aware of it, if you realise the significance of it, that the...

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    ...I ask myself, will any act of desire, which is will, bring this about? Because will plays a great part in our life. Will is based on choice, on decision - I will do this and I will not do that. Will, that is, the concentration of desire, plays an extraordinary part in our life. Haven't you noticed it? I must do this, I must not do that, I will...

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    ...understand? Concentration, awareness, awareness with choice. When there is choice there is always 'me' - my experience, my knowledge - me, separate from you. That 'me' chooses; where there is choice there is 'me' and therefore it is still limited. Now we are talking about attention in which there is no centre at all. Therefore if you do it now as...

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    ...what is it to be aware? Phew! When you sit there, are you aware of your surroundings? The man or the woman next to you, just to be aware without any judgement, evaluation, choice. Just watch it. Aware of the tent, aware of the colours round you, the faces, and is it possible to observe without any choice? To look. Because the moment you choose,...

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    There are two things, it seems to me, that are very important to understand: choice and will. Because all our life, our daily life is based on these two principles: choice, discernment, choosing between this and that, between the false and the true, the unessential, the essential, the important and unimportant, and the whole structure of will, the...

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    K: Of course. Motive comes into being when there is choice. That is implied. When I have a motive then the choice takes place. I choose you because I like you, or you flatter me, or you give me something or other. And the other doesn't, therefore there is choice and so on.

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    K: And choice is measurement, division and so on. So awareness is without choice, just to be aware. To say, 'I don't like, I like this room', all that has ended.

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    ...we proceeded from there - to be aware. And if you are aware, if there is any choice, that choice distorts observation. If you say, 'Well, my nose must be straight', (laughs) you are not looking at the mirror. So, where there is choice, awareness is a distorting factor. When there is no choice, that means no in that awareness you are aware of the...

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    ...you choose it - you follow? - you choose, that's all right. But why do you psychologically choose at all? You understand my question? Why do you choose? Doesn't choice come when you are not clear? When I know the road to Madras, there is no need for choice, I just go. So where there is clarity there is no choice. It's only the confused mind that...

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    I want to find out why I choose at all, why there is such a thing as choice. Does choice exist when I see something very clearly? It is only when there is uncertainty, no clarity, no perception, then I am forced to choose. But if I see something very, very clearly it is finished, there's no choice. I have to go to London and I want to do something...

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    K: Yes. I am not being cynical, sir, please. I am just saying, have you done it? If you have then you know what it means to be aware. That is, to be aware without censor, without judgement, without choice. Right? That is to look without any choice. Right? Which means what?

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    But if one puts all that aside, which is theoretical, problematical and rather superstitious, if you put all that aside, then what is will and what is choice, and what is action without choice and will? You follow? That is the problem. Is there any action which is not compounded with will? I don't know what the Buddha said.

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    ...No, sir, we went through that. We said confusion - when there is choice you are confused. Sir, if I don't know which road to take, I am confused. But if I know which road to take I am not confused. Let me finish with that. You are going back to the old thing, which is: choice exists, and decision exists as long as there is confusion. Full stop. We...

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    So as far as one sees where there is confusion there must be choice and being uncertain the choice gives you the direction, and to follow it you must resist every other form of influence. Right?

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    ...this a little more. Our brains are mechanical - right? - mechanical being repetitive, never being free, struggling within the same field, thinking it is free from moving from one corner to the other in the same field, which is choice, and thinking that choice is freedom, which is repeated. 'I am free because I can choose to go to Zurich'. But if I...

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    So scientists, astrophysicists, are always asking this question, if they are serious, not merely inventive and business scientists: is there something beyond matter? You understand? Is there something beyond thought? Because thought is matter. Right? Because it is held in the brain cells, the memory, experience, knowledge, held in the brain cells,...

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    ...I do not know if you have observed your own brains. I am not the brain specialist, not the psycho-biologist. See what is happening, sirs. That is, scientists are examining matter to find something beyond. You understand? If you have talked to any scientists, or if you are a scientist yourself, you are trying, if you are serious, if you are really...

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    ...continuance of fear. That is fairly clear. And the mind also, because it lives totally in the material world - we have described what is materialism: materialism is opinion, a concern, nothing matters but matter, nothing exists but matter, matter, which is manoeuvrable, movement, consciousness and will. All that is materialism. And thought is...

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    Now, I'll put it the other way: I have talked about this matter with several computer experts and this is what they are doing - are you interested in this?

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    ...extraordinarily clever, erudite, capable, not only to kill each other but to heal each other - medicine, surgery and so on. And as we pointed out the other day, science is trying to find through matter the ultimate. If you have talked with scientists it is so. That is, through matter, outside, and investigate, investigate, investigate, accumulate...

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    ...Of course, sir. If I am a physicist I study from college, from school, college, university, and have accumulated a great deal of knowledge about physics, matter, the enquiry into matter, and if I want to discover something new I must put aside all that which I have known. Sir, have you ever considered how the jet - you know, the jet aeroplane -...

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    ...we are going to, if we may, this morning concern ourselves with what is called materialism. Materialism means having an opinion, or evaluating life as matter. I am going to go slowly, please follow this: matter, its movement, its modification, also consciousness and will as matter. That is what the materialists maintain. Please you have to...

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    ...one has observed rather closely, how man is deteriorating, degenerating, and this degeneration takes place when you depend totally on the outer. That is, when matter, material, becomes all important. Are we going together? Please do listen to all this, give your heart and your ears to this. Not that the speaker wants to convince you, or do...

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    K: You can see it logically but doing is another matter - why is it another matter? If you have a toothache, a bad pain, you say, I will take time to get over it, or do you want it ended immediately? No, this is a bit too difficult, or you are not thinking this morning.

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    ...The astrophysicist scientists are using thought to find out - going out. You understand? They are doing this. They are investigating the world around them, matter, and going beyond the astrophysics, beyond, but always moving outward. Right? But if you start inward, the 'me' is also matter - thought is matter - so if you can go inwards then you are...

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    ...part of the brain which is not cultivated by thought? This is really important, please give your attention to this. If we do not find it then we will always live in the field of the known, from which thought arises, which is matter. Thought is matter, we went into it sufficiently. Thought is matter because it is the response of memory, memory is...

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    ...existence - is that what you are attached to? Or, attached to your knowledge - has been a great writer, great poet, painter - to fame. Or you are attached to a word because words play a tremendous part in our life. Just words. Because we never look behind the word, we never see the word is never the thing, the symbol is never the...

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    Can that thing ever be put into words? I am not saying I am avoiding it - you follow? It is not a question of avoiding or trying to slither out of some conclusion. But you see so far we have put everything into words.

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    K: It makes sense. Then how am I to have it in my daily life? How am I to bring about - you understand these are words which are difficult, all these words are time-binding, but is that possible?

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    ...problem, don't I'm not quite sure that you will understand this. Not verbally understand - any person can understand verbally, about something or other - but we are going beyond using the words, and delving through the words into the depths of something that is most extraordinary. That is why I am wondering whether you are capable, you have the...

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    ...To see. Now go slowly, what do you mean by seeing? Do you see this process mechanically - please listen carefully - mechanically because you've heard the words, you have intellectually understood, and you see with the intention to apply these words and the intellectual conclusion to seeing? Please listen, be careful, don't say, no. Are you seeing...

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    ...feel you are real? The gentleman says he feels he is real. I wonder what we mean by that. I am real. I am sitting here, I have got a body, I see things about me, my thoughts are real, the words I use are real, I like and I don't like - real. You have hurt me, you have flattered me, that is real. My gods, I realise, I have invented. It is me out of...

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    K: Look I say something which is very applicable to you and to me, and words, description, have no meaning, and you say then, 'I understand it'. That understanding is non-movement, isn't it? You have understood it.

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    K: Now wait a minute. I hear you making that statement. From that hearing I have understood the words and see the meaning of what you are seeing. Right? Right?

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    ...your furniture, your petty little, shoddy little things that you have collected; as the Hindu, the Sikh, the Muslim, the Christian - you follow? - that's what you have collected, words, words, words. Because in that you seek shelter and comfort; because you don't know how to face this enormous thing called death, which is the ending of the things...

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    K: Wait a minute, sir. You say, 'of not being'. We are not discussing, having a dialogue verbally, actually we are experiencing, you know, going through this, not just words, words, words. You say, 'the mind does this because it is afraid, it is afraid of not being'. Now, what is it that wants to be?

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    ...please, as I said, as we said, the speaker is not here. You are asking these questions yourselves. And we are using words that are common. And we are not being driven by the words. You may have read psychological books and have certain jargons, certain ideas, and those ideas, those words, drive you, control you, control your thinking, control your...

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    ...what way is one to act in daily life without this division? To behave, to talk, to use the words that doesn't create the division between you and me, and in myself. (Pause) Surely it is only possible in being totally aware, being completely sensitive, not only what is going on inwardly but also outwardly - the manner of my speech, the words, the...

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    K: No. How do you meet me? With all the memories, all the images, the reputation, the words, the pictures, the symbol, all that, with that which is the past, you meet me now.

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    K: Look at it sir, go into it. I am your student, don't just give words, throw out words. Why has man right through history, sir, it is not just now, right through.

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    ...and therefore capable of looking at 'what is' without the word. This is not an intellectual game. Because words play an extraordinarily important part in our life - Christian, immediately you have an image; German, communism, a black man - you follow? These are words. And we think by using these words we have understood. So can your mind be free...

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    ...Please take the habit of smoking. All right, sir. Now wait a minute, I am not analysing, you understand the difference between analysis and observation. Do you? How am I to do if you? All right, I'll explain. There is a difference between analysis and observation, seeing. Analysis implies the one who analyses and the thing to be analysed. The...

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    So to understand oneself there must be observation, and that observation can only take place now. And the now is not the movement of the past which observes the now. See the difference? I can observe the now from the past, from my past conclusions, prejudices, hopes, fears and all the rest of it. Which is the observation from the past of the...

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    K: What prevents observation? Do circumstances, relationship, all the impingement of the outer environment, does that prevent observation - is that your question, sir?

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    ...- to observe. Observe that tree, to listen to that stream, which is part of observation naturally, without any interference of the word - the tree, the river - to observe without any movement of the past remembrance entering into your observation, which requires complete freedom from the past as the observer, and just to observe. You understand...

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    So first of all we are asking, is there an observation of the whole movement of the self, which we have described both outwardly and inwardly, can you look at that - no - is there an observation of that without the past? You get it? You understand what I am talking about? Look, I have lived 80 years or more - 87 years. A man who has lived 87 years...

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    So when analysis is totally false - I am using the word 'false' in the sense, incorrect, it has no value - then you are only concerned with observation, that is, to observe. So we have to understand the whole question of what is observation. You are following all this?

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    ...You just observe, don't you. In that observation when there is verbalisation you have already moved away from observation, haven't you? This is so simple, isn't it? So can you observe without verbalising? - just to observe without naming. Now can you look at yourself, observe yourself without saying, good, bad, get depressed - you follow? - just...

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    ...memory as a screen and through that screen you look at people. So there is an observation which is not controlled by words, shaped by words, twisted by thought, and that is the only - I don't like to use 'instrument' - that is the only observation, to look, to observe without any word. Don't shake your head, this demands extraordinary...

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    To observe it implies - or to be aware of it - if there is any choice in that observation that the factor of that choice distorts observation. I think that's fairly clear. That is, if one is to observe one's own deep layers of consciousness with all the struggles, the pains, the anxieties, the laughter, the tears and the ambitions, and the...

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    K: Do you mean by observation, you are that. You understood the question? Do you mean by observation you see you are that? Aren't you that? No, do see clearly - aren't you that anger? It's part of you. So thought says, 'I must do something about that part'. So thought begins to function - I must not, I must, it's right, it's wrong, it should be -...

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    ...is: what happens when the mind is not occupied at all? What takes place? Is it emptiness? That emptiness, is it degenerating? Is it emptiness at all? Or there is only observation and nothing else. And that observation is not the occupation of the observer occupied with the observed observing. What is there? If there is only observation then what...

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    So you will see in that observation there is neither the observer nor the - there is no observer, only observation taking place. The observer exists only when through observation you accumulate - when you say, 'He is my friend because he flattered me, he said what a lovely , and he is not my friend because he said something ugly, or something true...

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    K: Is an idea a fact? Idea, from what the dictionary says, began from the Greek word which means 'observation, to observe'. Now we're coming closer. May we go on with this a little bit? That is, to observe, not draw a conclusion from that and act, but the very observation is the action.

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    ...the brain has only one factor, and that is the only instrument you have. And is there an observation - please, just listen, find out, I am just suggesting this, look into it - is there an observation without knowledge, an observation in which there is no experience. The moment you have experience there must be an experiencer - I don't know if you...

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    So can there be an observation without any movement of the past, and therefore no fear at all, just observation? It doesn't mean I observe the bus rushing towards me, I step out of it.

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    ...I am frightened of that too. You are following all this? And of course I am afraid of death, and I am afraid of being lonely, not being loved and so I want to establish a relationship with another in which this fear doesn't exist, this anxiety, this sense of loneliness, this separation. And also I am afraid of the dark, the lift, and the...

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    You know we are so afraid of death. We have never enquired into a mind that has not only not fear, which we talked about the other day, but also what is death. Right? You see our mind clings to a continuity. Right? In continuity there is security: I was, I am, I will be. That concept, that idea, gives tremendous strength. Right? I feel secure,...

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    ...in our life that is common. And we have never gone into it. We are frightened of it. Fear is time. Fear is the product of thought. And being afraid of death, we have put it far away, something to be avoided. And if you are afraid of death, then seeking comfort in afterlife,...

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    ...it is not a practice. You see, you are so afraid of doing anything which might become a practice. I am not saying - sir, aren't you afraid of losing your job? Aren't you afraid of death? Aren't you afraid of not being able to fulfil? Aren't you afraid of being lonely? Aren't you afraid of not being loved? Aren't you? Some form of fear? What your...

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    ...frightened. And having no fear I have no beliefs, whether the entity lives or doesn't live after dying. This is a tremendous I am going into it. The 'me', who is so afraid of death, the 'me' is the known. The 'me' is the known when it is attached to the furniture, to the house, to the family, to the name, to the country, the 'me' is the known. And...

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    ...Wait. Whatever the fear be - daily life of fear, losing money, afraid of your husband, wife, afraid of losing your job, afraid of darkness, afraid what people - afraid - afraid of death, afraid of not becoming famous, fulfilling, wanting to be recognised - you know, fears. Can't you? Need you go back and say, 'Well, I have no fear now, but when I...

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    ...is afraid of a physical pain that one has had last week, and one hopes it will not recur again, and in that there is fear. One is afraid of death, that everlasting thing that is waiting for all of us. One is afraid of one's wife or husband, or girl or boy - there are so many fears. And if you invite one as you are sitting there, what is the cause...

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    One is afraid of death - I won't go into the question of death because that is a very complex thing, we will go into it. We are asking what is the relationship between these two. Fear is time. Right? I'll have to explain it. Gosh, must one explain everything, can't we jump into it?

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    ...the root of fear is time-thought. If you understand that - see the beauty of it, the subtlety of it. And the other thing is: people are afraid, as you are, most human beings throughout the world are afraid of death. That's one of the fundamental fears of life. And we all know death is for everybody, for you and the speaker. That's an absolute...

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    ...What is fear? You are afraid; aren't you? At least be honest to yourself. You are afraid, aren't you - afraid of losing your job; afraid of death; afraid of not reaching god or whatever it is, afraid of not doing the right thing; afraid of not being respectable. Right? So you have many, many forms of fear, which is the fear that you...

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    ...understood deeply what the deep significance of death is. We can only understand it when there is no fear. Right? But most of us - I am sorry about my voice, it will get better as we go along - most of us are afraid of death. And we separate living from death - our daily life from death. One thing is absolutely certain, which is that we are all...

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    ...it's obvious. You are afraid - losing a job, afraid of death, afraid of public opinion, afraid of old age, afraid of not being somebody, afraid that you will be punished, afraid that you will never get your reward, afraid of darkness, afraid of your wife or husband, afraid of your guru, afraid of the gods - multiplication of fears. Right? Now can...

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    ...please! What am I afraid of, each one of us? My wife, losing my job, having no status in society, nobody recognising me as a great man? Afraid of death, afraid of darkness, afraid that I might physically get hurt? Go on, sir, please, what is it you're afraid...

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    ...little backyard of a country. So there are innumerable forms of fear. Right? People are afraid of the dark, people are afraid of public opinion, people are afraid of death - we will deal with death later - people are afraid of not fulfilling, whatever that may mean. Apart from the fear of disease, one may have a great deal of pain, physical pain;...

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    Now, have you understood my statement? You may not agree, you may say, that's all blah, anything you like, but first understand what I have to say.

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    K: So we come to this point, you make a statement that psychological time has been used by man as a means of achieving his reward.

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    K: Ah, wait. I don't know. You see you are coming to a conclusion. You have made a statement that you can only be aware for one second. I say, 'How do you know this?' It may not be.

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    ...but also freedom from the repetitive activity which memory cultivates. So when the speaker makes a statement, as I am going to make it now, that the ending of sorrow is the beginning of wisdom, the ending of sorrow is the beginning of wisdom - how do you receive it? What is your immediate reaction to it, not calculated reaction, not argumentative...

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    I have made a statement: what place has time, which is knowledge and thought, in the transformation of the human mind, human being? Because there must be transformation. Now how do you listen to it? Do you listen merely to the meaning of words? Or do you listen and in the very act of listening draw a conclusion, and therefore listening with a...

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    ...That's right. Freedom is non-attachment. Now wait a minute. You hear that statement, how do you receive that statement? Do you receive it applying it to yourself, or is it an idea? If that statement is made to the speaker, the speaker says, am I attached, to my tree, to my reputation, to my book, to my belief, to my furniture, to my house, to my...

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    ...I am just beginning with that. Do you, as a human being, know, or aware that you are registering? You understand my question? Or you have accepted the statement and then you proceed to question the statement? Are you aware that you register certain things? An unhappy incident of yesterday is registered. Are you aware of this registering process...

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    4th Question: For the understanding of human problems such as fear, loneliness and sorrow, your statement 'The observer is the observed' seems to be all important. However, the logic of that statement doesn't seem to go beyond the intellectual level. Why is it that certain facts remain mere concepts?

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    ...I'll show you. First I'll go into it carefully, sir. First you must listen to it, mustn't you? You must listen to this statement. Do you listen to the statement? Or do you say, yes, that statement sounds right because some other guru has said it, or some book said it - so you are not actually listening. Are you? So first, please, I beg of you...

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    K: Ah, but, sir, that's the point. When you say, 'I am that', or 'Thou are that', there is a statement of a supposed fact...

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    K: Yes. So can I listen to that, can the mind listen to that statement without any forming an abstraction? Just listen. I neither agree nor disagree, just actually listen completely to that statement.

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    ...Ah, no, it won't continue the moment it is a reality. How can you say, I am isolated? I am the world, all this thing that I have created. So that's why I have been asking how do you listen to this statement? What does it mean to your mind, to your heart, to your feelings, what does it mean when you make a statement of that kind? Do I...

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    ...Wait a minute, lady. Do you listen to the fact, to this statement, just, I'm making a statement: can you observe - is there an observation of that which is actually taking place. That's the question, that's a statement. Do you listen to that? Or do you say, 'Well, what does he mean by attention, what does he mean by fear', just a minute, just wait...

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    K: I am asking a question: how do you listen to some statement or some fact which you have never heard or listened or seen, how do you come to it, how do you receive it?

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    K: The mind does not seek anything any longer. You know what that means, when you make a statement of that kind, so easily - do listen to this. Not seek anything, which means what?