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I am not, the speaker has never been pessimistic or optimistic, he is just showing something to you: that the computers can take over all that man has done - almost, except the computers can't look at the beautiful tree, or the evening star, single, alone in the sky, or the morning light on the waters. When a machine can take over all that you are...

Listen not only verbally, and the meaning of the word, but also non-verbally - for communication is verbal and non-verbal, and since we are speaking in English, the words have definite meaning and if you don't understand the meaning of the word actually but interpret that word according to your particular conditioning then you will not be listening to what is being said.

...in English we have to understand the meaning of words, how they are used. And in this communication, that is, in listening to what is going to be said, either we share in what is being said or merely translate what is being said into ideas, into abstractions. Either we share together what is being said and not translate it into an ideology, into...

You know that word, 'communication' is very important to understand. Communication means building together, creating together. The word itself means that. And here we are trying to communicate, the speaker is trying to communicate with you, who are the listener, which means the listener and the speaker are creating together. Therefore, you're not...

...we go into that this morning? Can we freely enquire together into this question? Because communication and relationship always go together. If there is no communication there is no relationship, not only between you and the speaker but also between each other. If we merely remain at the verbal level, at the formal level, that communication is very...

...course not. Sir, when you hold a hand of another, you can hold it out of habit or of custom. Or you can hold it and communication can take place without a word, because both are at the given moment intense, communication has taken place, without a word. But we are not intense, passionate,...

K: (Repeating) Could we go into communication and attention. All right, sir, let's talk about communication and attention. Any other thing?

...all these questions of yourself. If you have - I am not suggesting that you should, or that you must, but as two friends talking over together, each points out to the other, asks questions of each other, doubts what the other fellow is saying, so there is interaction between the two, there is a communication. And communication implies not only a...

...with the psyche, the mind, and from there moving outwards. I don't know if we are communicating with each other. Communication means, as we said the other day, learning together, sharing together, observing together, creating together. That is, really, that means communication. So we must, you and I, must both move together step by step, and not...

...No. I'm just using that. Sir, first see, I'm talking about the word 'communication', not conditioning. We'll come to that. I don't know if I understand it rightly , I am talking - we are talking about that word, 'communication', which means, as I said, to build together. Here, communication means building together, understanding together, working...

...were talking yesterday evening? Communication with each other, to commune, to communicate something to another, unless they are really willing to listen, however friendly, however good-intentioned, unless one is able to listen to another, communication becomes rather limited, misunderstood, and apt to be misguiding. So we are going to talk over...

K: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Patience, patience. The gentleman says, if I have understood him rightly, to bring about this order should we give first place to god. That's right, sir? That's a question isn't it?

So, the next question, which is much more difficult to answer - you have to have patience so far. Patience means - please understand, patience - I am using the word 'patient' in a particular sense. Patience means the absence of time. You understand? Generally patience means go slow, be patient, take time, don't react quickly, be quiet, take it...

K: What is real friendship, if in that there is no trust or respect. If there is no trust or respect, what is the meaning of real friendship? I don't know. (Laughter) If you haven't got respect and affection how can you have friendship? I don't quite understand the meaning of this question.

...give you comfort, which will psychologically make you feel secure. That you love, which is what you want, you love. Right? Be ruthless in this. So devotion is not love, which is different from respect. You understand? Devotion is totally different from respect. That is, to respect another, care for another, consideration for another. But you only...

...of a guru is fear. Right? The respect that you have for your bosses, for your politicians, for your gurus, for your so-called higher authorities, that respect which is never shown to those below you, politically, religiously, morally, ethically, in business, is really a cowardice. Are you accepting all this? The word 'respect' means to look back....

...Nobody has said that to me, here or in India or anywhere else. Perhaps one or two have. But I'm asking you, out of politeness, kindness, etc., respect, what do you pay for something which is unpayable.

Now, look at it the other way. What do you consider religion? What is, to you, religion? To you, to you - what is religion? You understand, you must answer this question.

...if you have ever looked at the word 'reviving'. You can only revive something that's dead or dying. Nothing living, you can't revive a living thing. And in this country they are reviving religion. And also they are doing the same thing in different parts of the world. And there is division between nationalities, religion, economic, and so...

...we are going to enquire into that. That is, what is religion? Please understand, we have talked about fear, we talked about psychological wounds, not to carry for the rest of one's life. We talked and have gone into it together, what is relationship, the significance of relationship. Nothing can exist on earth without relationship, and that...

...going to examine what is a religious mind. As we said, only religion - we will explain what that word means presently - only religion has brought about at any historical time a new culture, totally independent of the old superstitious, ritualistic, repetitive nonsense - totally different. And we are going to enquire into that. Religion, the word...

K: That's very important because religion, at least the meaning of word is to gather together to be attentive. That is the true meaning of that word, religion, I have looked it up in a dictionary.

And to bring about a unity of all other human beings, it is only religion can do this, bring us all together. Not politics, not science, not some new philosophy or some expansive economy, or various organisations, political, religious, none of them are going to bring us together as a whole. I think this one has to realise very deeply, that no...

...in Venice or in Rome it's a marvellous sight. It's like a military thing operating, but beautiful. But that's not beauty as we've talked about the other day. So all that is not religion. Right? Intellect, which is the power to discern, the power to distinguish, to see what is true, what is false; that's the power of the intellect. And the world...

...And if there is a transformation of one or two of us, and that transformation does bring about a new culture. Culture can only be a new one, can only come out of a religion, not out of superstition, not out of ideas, however good or bad. Religion, not these things we call religion: the puja, the rituals, the fancy robes and so on and so on. That...

...business of living, we are not educated to look and see what happens if we face death. So I was wondering as we came along this morning, religion, which we were going to discuss anyhow, has become merely not only a divisive process but also utterly meaningless. Maybe 2,000 years as Christianity, or 3,000, 5,000 as Hinduism, Buddhism and so on, it...

...a belief, drugged by following somebody. This demands, please, that you be a light to yourself, not the light of another, light which comes through enquiry. And religion is sceptical enquiry. Religion is that. Religion isn't all the circus that goes on in the world - the puja, the rituals, the worship of idols, worship of symbols in the Christian...

So love is that beauty when you are not. You understand? I weep for you, you know. I am actually weeping for you because you have none of these things. You have a little canvas, a little hole in which you are living and you call that life. And everything else is not, neither love nor beauty nor compassion. But you are full of knowledge of books,...

So we are saying, asking: is love desire? You answer that question for yourself. Desire, we said, is sensation, and thought giving shape to that sensation. The remembrance of pleasure and the demand for that pleasure, more and more and more. So is love pleasure? Is love jealousy? Possessiveness, attachment, fear? Or is love something totally -...

K: Yes, sir. There is fear. That's what I am saying. There is fear, and how can you examine anything if there is fear. How can I understand what love is if there is fear? I can tell my wife I love her, but that means nothing if I am afraid.

...and actions. So sex becomes important when everything else becomes unimportant, when life, the whole of it, not just sex, life includes living, life includes what love is, what death is, the whole movement of living, when that has no meaning, then one fragment which you call sex, becomes extraordinarily important and vital. When you are not...

So what is love? Please this is a very serious thing. Don't say, 'Does it exist in the rest of the world?' - we are asking you: what is love? Is love jealousy? Is love attachment? I am attached to my wife. What tragedy it all is, isn't it? I am attached, if I am married, thank the lord I am not, if I am attached to my wife, what are the...

So love is not hate: that's obvious. Love is not vanity, arrogance. Love is not in the hands of power. The people who are in power, wanting power, it doesn't matter if it's over a small child or wanting power over a whole group of people or a nation, that surely is not love. Love is not pleasure, love is not desire. I don't know if you have time...

...What is it that will answer all these questions? Would not all these questions be answered when you have absolute unconditional psychological freedom? And freedom means love, not anything else. Love is not desire, pleasure, sensation, attachment. And where there is love, there's compassion and that unlimited intelligence. When it's there, you've...

...are the other factors that bring sorrow in human life? I want to love. I love you and you don't love me, and I want more love from you, I feel I must be loved by you, you are the only person who can love me, nobody else. I shut the door on everybody else, but except you. I will keep my door open to you; and you look the other way. Doesn't this...

...see, none of us want to do that. That means work. That means a great deal of energy. We don't want to do that but we talk about love. We say 'I love my God, I love my child, I love my country', which is all sheer hypocrisy. Or I say 'I love my social work, I love to help people', again which is all nonsense. So unless the mind is free completely,...

K: I am asking you sir, please sir. I am asking you most respectfully, whether you love anybody at all. You may love your dog but the dog is your slave. Apart from animals and buildings and books and poetry and the love of the land, do you love anybody - which means not asking anything in return. Right?

K: I'm asking, what has brought this fear into me, into my consciousness? I won't use that word because we'll have to go into that in a different way. What has brought this fear? And I won't leave it till I find it. You understand, sir? Because I've got the energy to do it. I don't depend on anybody, on any book, on any philosopher, nobody.

...Yes, sir. But is it the fear of letting go the known, not the fear of the unknown? You understand? Fear of the things I have gathered and letting them go - my property, my wife, my name, my books, my furniture, my good looks, or bad looks - god knows what else - my, you know, capacity, the things that I know, I've experienced, and letting them go....

K: Yes. So, you have to eliminate fear now. Got it? You people - you see, you say something true, and stop - you don't proceed. You said - go on, repeat what you said. It is very good Do you realise all of you up there who are much older don't talk - why?

...that person. And when you observe that you are dependent, you see that the source of this dependence is fear: fear of not being able to stand alone, fear of making a mistake, fear of not following the right path, which is a guru, fear of not having comfort, not having somebody as a companion, not being able to depend on somebody. So through...

...the memories of neurotic achievements, the memory of holding on to your own particular experience, which gives you a position. To die to all that, without argument, without discussion, without any fear just to give it up. Do it sometime, you'll see. It used to be the old tradition in the East that a rich man every five years or so, gave up...

K: Sometimes you are. What do you mean by fear? Carefully think it out, carefully listen to the meaning of that word 'fear'. Are you afraid of your mother and father? Sometimes.

...I am going to analyse myself - anger, jealousy, whatever it is. And is the analyser different from the thing which he analyses? Surely he is not different; he is part of that anger, part of that jealousy, that fear. He is that fear, though he may pretend to be different, outside looking in. And if he is separate then when he analyses deeply, his...

So fear is a remembrance, the thing that is over. It is over but the brain retains it and recognises a feeling which it calls fear, because it recognises it verbally, and absorbs it into the past. I don't know if you follow this. You understand, sir?

...that you know is that you are frightened. That is all you know. Frightened of coming to an end - and that is what death is. Fear prevents you from looking at it, because fear has prevented you from living - you understand? - living, not living with anxiety, pain, sorrow, guilt, ambition - you know all that brutal business. So fear has prevented...

So, we are saying, can this thing called fear be ended immediately? Now let me take another example - fear is rather a complex problem which we'll go into perhaps tomorrow, in another talk. Take for instance dependence, psychological dependence. Human beings have cultivated this, because they are afraid to be alone, they are afraid to be lonely,...

...sorrow in the world. They are still doing it. How many women, men, wives, have cried about this. For thousands of years, and nobody stops it. They talk about peace on earth; they don't mean it. To have peace on earth one has live peacefully. And that peace cannot be brought about through legislation. Peace means a state of mind, brain, where there...

And we are asking deeply, if you are serious at all, whether you and I, and those of us who are involved in organisations, can live at peace with each other. Peace requires a great deal of intelligence, not just demonstrations against a particular form of war, against a nuclear or atom bomb and so on. Those are the products of minds, brains that...

...the next question is, which Mrs Lilliefelt put, which is: how does this flash come about? Let's begin the other way round. How does love come about? How does peace come about. Which is, peace being causeless, violence is cause, how does that causeless thing come about when my whole life is causation? (Pause) No, there is no 'how'. Right? There is...

And also we ought to consider together, what is peace? The obvious meaning is not to have conflict, not to have pain, not to suffer, not to have everlasting struggle from the moment you are born till you die. That is, to have no problems at all and no conflict. Is that possible? Is it possible to live in this world, not run away from the world, is...

...that life is a process of relationship. Why in our relationship with each other, however intimate, sexual, however very close, why there is conflict? Why two people cannot live peacefully? Have you ever asked that question? Why? Because this is very important. If I don't know how to live peacefully with my wife, with my husband, with my...

We were talking about peace: why human beings who have lived on this earth for so many thousands and thousands of years have had no peace at all. There have been innumerable wars and probably there will be more wars. And why with all the technological knowledge we have acquired, and all the protestations of religions about peace, pacem in terris,...

And if one may again point out without boring you, that this is not a lecture about religion or philosophy, or what is peace and so on. It's not how you should think or what you think but rather together, you and the speaker, enquire into this very complex question of what is religion and if it is possible not only to have peace in the world but...

...Yes sir. There are several organisations that talk about peace in the world, various groups that are talking about peace in the world - pacem in terris. The pope says it, other religious organisations assert it - you must have peace on earth. And you are asking, if I understand rightly: are there individuals, groups, organisations that are working...

We began these talks with the enquiry: religion and peace on earth require a great deal of intelligence. Peace on earth has not been possible for man for thousands and thousands of years, nor has religion - what is accepted as religion - brought peace to man. There have been religious wars, religions have killed people, blessed canons, warships,...

...as the speaker is giving in understanding? Or you are just listening, you know, playing with words. And it would be a thousand pities if you don't understand this simple thing because man has lived in conflict, and he wants peace through conflict. And there can never be peace through conflict, however many armaments and all that you may have,...

...are not discussing, going into that. We are saying an action born out of knowledge, knowledge being that which we have accumulated both biologically as well as psychologically, when that action is born from that which has already been experienced, known, that action must inevitably lead to further illusion. And we were saying that there is an...

...inwardly, without division, without 'me' as the observer and the thing that is observed as two different entities? Because if it is possible to observe without division then action is immediate and therefore not contradictory. When action is based on an idea, an ideology, a goal, an end, then such action must breed inevitably conflict because...

Action has some kind of motive, pleasant or unpleasant, rewarding or painful, or under pressure, driven by various influences. So one has to find out what we mean by action. Is there an action which has no motive, which is not under pressure, which is not, threatened and therefore act, which is not rewarding and therefore painful? So one has to...

So, any action on my part - please listen to this! - any action on my part, which is part of my conscious the content is still it cannot uncondition, it cannot be unconditioned that way. Then what am I to do? You have got it, sir? I will not reject or accept it. It is a fact.

So I must understand: is there an action which is total, which is complete, whole, not partial. Which means can I observe myself wholly, not in fragments? Or through the fragment instantly see the whole? So is there an action which is whole? I say, yes, there is, definitely. Don't you ask me, what is that?

K: Thinking is action. So what is action then, thinking, self-centred, conditioned, partial, contradictory, idealistic, acting according to a certain pattern, utopia, Marxist, Maoist. (Laughs)

K: Yes, sir but have we - I don't know how to approach this question, because here we are, each one has a different idea what action is. Right? Right, sir? Now is there an action which we can all, not accept, but see the fact or let me put it differently: is there an action which is not divisive, which is not self-centred, which is not idealistic,...

K: That's right. But when you see the actor is the action, you have quite a different - your mind is quite different when you see that.

K: Now, Narayan, if I may point out, we are talking over together action in which there is no choice, in which there is no effort as will. Is there such action? I don't know, sir, please.

...you are acting according to a concept, belief, a conclusion, a principle, an ideal - you follow? - find out. And when you find out you will see that's not action, it's either a continuity of a dead thing, or a future thing which is not now. Right? Now, if you see that very clearly, then what is action? Action then is what you are doing now. Right?...

...Do think about it a minute. We don't understand what relationship means. Because I come along and say, look, let us talk as two friends, which implies care, affection, love, consideration, involvement, commitment, and you sit there and say, 'You go on talking, but...' You would never say that to your wife or husband or girlfriend or boyfriend...

K: That's it, sir. There is not even affection to understand something. If you and I had affection - if you had affection and I had affection for you, and I say, look, for god's sake, do look at this, and because you have affection for me, or love for me, and what I say becomes important to you.

...Ah, not we have to love. That is not an action of will. If there is to be an understanding of 'what is', and 'what is ' may be violence, greed, brutality, cruelty or affection or joy - awareness implies great care in looking. When you have a baby don't you - the mother cares infinitely with affection, gets up at two, three or four o'clock in the...

Krishnamurti: Yes. I think that is affection, that is love. When you talk to my waking consciousness, it is hard, clever, subtle, brittle. And you penetrate that, say, all right, keep your own beastly little stuff, and you penetrate it with your look, with your affection, with all that feeling you have. That operates, not anything else.

K: ...you protect it with affection, taking it in your lap, cuddling him or her, and holding his hand, you make him feel that he is loved, that he is cared for. That gives him a feeling, here is somebody who is looking after me, and there is security here.

...also I would like to point out: I think we don't listen; we don't really try to find out what the other person is trying to say. And listening requires certain attention, care, affection. If I want to understand what you are saying I must listen to you, not block myself all the way, all the time. I must care for what you are saying, I must have...

K: Oh, no. No, no, no, no, you have not understood what we have said. Both arise, love and aggression, they have no formulas. Really, that is not what we are talking about.

K: No, just sir. This is really for half an hour, do please put your minds to this, I beg of you. Are you different from your aggression? Obviously you are not. You are aggression, it is part of you.

So we are saying, observe without direction, attachment, or aggression, or your violence. Observe it without any motive, direction, desire, just to observe it, and in that very observation there is an ending of it. And therefore you are inviting death while living. You follow? I wonder if you understand this? Not commit suicide, that's another...

THIRD QUESTION: How does one meet aggression and psychological attack from a close relative from whom one cannot escape? (Laughter)

...in our relationship when you are nothing? You understand? You know what it means to be nothing? No ambition, which doesn't mean you vegetate, no competition, no aggression, no resistance, no barriers built by hurt - you are absolutely nothing. Then what is it to be related to another? Have you ever thought about all this, or is it all so...

...me, is that a form of vanity? It's like a man who is vain, as most of us are, and out of that vanity we try to be humble. Is that humility? A man who is full of aggression, violence, tries to be modest. You understand? It's absurd, it's lost its meaning. Whereas, a man who is aggressive realises, sees what aggression has done in this world and all...

So is our approach free from our conclusions, from our experience, from our knowledge? If it is from our experience, from our knowledge, you have already answered the problem, which will be according to time, which will be according to your conditioning. But if you come to it freely, to observe, then there is immediate action.

And again to be attached to an experience, to hold on to an experience, some experience that you have had, talking or walking by yourself in a wood, you suddenly come or feel this oneness with nature, that there is no division between you and the world about you, this sense of wholeness. It happens and that is an experience which is registered in...

K: Yes. Sir, I had an experience yesterday, pleasant or unpleasant, and I carry it over today, the brain carries it over today. Can that experience of yesterday, pleasurable or painful, end with yesterday? Otherwise it is a continuity of the past.

K: Opinions, beliefs, I have had an experience, it gives me tremendous satisfaction, I am going to hold on to it. I have had knowledge, you know, all that. How do you help me, such a person, to be free of all this? Your words, you explanations, your logic, everything says, quite right, but I can't move out of that.

K: Not experience. I doubt everybody's experience, including my own. But I am saying let's discuss that, not experience, then you are lost: my experience, your experience, but what is the relationship of the man who loves, in the sense we are talking about, and the man who hates? Just look at it sir. How can there be?

So, when you understand this whole nature of experience, you are free from the outward stimulus which gives you experiences. Then if you also reject that, then you have the challenge inwardly, which creates its own experiences. That is, in meditation people see visions, and love to see all these childish things, which are fairly which is the...

As you say, the infinite, can one experience the infinite? This is really quite a fundamental question, not only here but in life. We can experience something which we have already known. I experience meeting you. That's an experience, meeting you, or you meeting me, or my meeting X. And when I meet you next time I recognise you, don't I? I say,...

K: Of course. Thought is memory, which is experience, which is knowledge, stored up - it doesn't matter where, in my big toe, stored up - and when it is challenged it operates.

...it? Or the brain is carrying on in its old habits, beliefs, dogmas, rituals, or business and so on, just mechanically carrying on. If I may ask, is your brain like that? Silence! Have you ever watched one thought chasing another thought, a series of associations, a series of memories, holding on to your own experience? The other day, in America, a...

So without experience there is no knowledge. The scientists are adding everyday something new. Please follow this carefully, if you don't mind. Experience is limited. Right? Because we are adding more and more to it, through knowledge. Experience, knowledge stored in the brain as memory and then that is the beginning of thought. Right? Am I right?...

K: No, but that's not I'm saying, the source of fear of every kind that human beings have is born from thought. Will you listen to that statement, as you would listen when I say I really love you? Because it's too simple, your mind immediately says, 'No, that's too damn simple, it's not, it is much more complicated than that'.

K: Who invented exams? (Laughter) The Chinese? The Mandarins? I believe they were the original people who kind of invented this monstrous system.

K: That's what I'm I am coming to that, madame. Look at it, sir. He is attracted to it, attracted to all that, and he won't listen to my talk. He kind of avoids me. Right? Don't you know all this, as parents? No?

K: Are you saying no? When are you then generous? When are you feeling affectionate, kind, generous, sympathetic? Or do you never feel it? Or only occasionally?

JK: Yes, it is the activity of thought. Now if I consciously meditate, practise, do all this kind of what I call nonsense, then you are making the brain conform to another series of patterns.

So what will bring us together? Belief won't, authority of any kind is rejected, the reward by another as a means for you to change is also rejected. And if you say you are going to be punished in heaven for not obeying, you say 'Go away, don't be silly', and you pass him. So what will make us come together?

...when given an opportunity it breaks through. Which is it? I've seen so many people in - I've lived a long time - from the age of fifteen I've seen this happen, with people of my own age - begin beautiful, you know, and gradually finish, destructive, cruel, brutal, self-centred, ugly, drunk.

K: You are anger at that moment. You are envy at that moment. And so there are many, many moments you are. Right? You are your anger, you are your name, you are your bank account, if unfortunately you have a bank account, you are your family you are your society, you are your god - you are, you invented all this. So, there is no 'you' separate...

K: Sir, look at it in yourself. At the moment of jealousy, or of anger, or of envy, or of hate, whatever it be, happiness, at that second there is no division, is there?

K: How do I know that anger is a fact and the opinion about anger is a conclusion. Right? Don't you know? The opinion, the judgement about anger is a conclusion. And the fact I'm angry is a fact. For the love of god.

K: Sir, no, not my relationship with truth. I am angry. Right? Suppose I am angry - there is anger, not I am angry - there is anger. Can I, is there an observation of that feeling, that reaction, without the whole movement of thought coming into it? That's all my question.

Sir, we have the idea, a concept, a tradition that I am different from my anger. I am the atman and all that kind of stuff, I am different from everything, I am the watcher. Right? I am the controller. As that gentleman points out very clearly, that if I don't do anything now, that is, I won't be attached, I won't do anything about my attachment,...

K: Look, sir, can you watch, is there an observation of that feeling without naming it? The moment you say, anger, it is violence. Right?

...it. Before I am aware or anything, I say to myself, is it possible for me to watch - casually, I'm playing with it, I am having a game with myself. I am watching the movement of anger arising. I think that's fairly simple. Right? I think you've noticed all that, haven't you? No,...

K: Wait, careful, don't agree so quickly. You are not different from all that. Right? Are you different from anger? No, of course not. So you are anger. Right?

K: If I don't hold my anger I am afraid I might kill somebody. Look, look. Before you kill somebody, try to find out if you can resolve the anger. To control it is to suppress it. To say, 'I must not be angry' is to create the opposite, and therefore a conflict between 'must not be' and the fact that I am. Right? Or if you try to escape from it,...

So the hurt is not different from me, the 'me' is the image, and that image gets hurt, so I am that image. Like anger is not different from me, I am anger. I might think I am different but in actuality I am anger. So do you see the truth of it - not the idea of it? the actual truth that when you are angry that anger is you.

...lack of love, and to have no psychological fear at all. All this implies that one must stand alone. There is a difference between isolation and aloneness, between loneliness and being able to stand by yourself clearly, unconfused, uncontaminated.

K: Why does one, I mean, if one is afraid, do you, does one want to go really deeply inside the whole business of it, and be free from it? Does one demand that? Or we don't know how to deal with fears and so we run away from it, avoid it and explain it away. Is that it, we never really want to go into it and completely dissolve it. Is that what is...

K: Isn't this what is happening in life? Don't say, it is not my business if you are a Communist. It is my business to see if we can live in security, in peace in the world, we are human beings, supposed to be intelligent. Why should I be committed to anything?

...Sir, I don't know what is happening to most of the people all the time. But I am saying as one human being we are so conditioned in the pattern of achievement, whether in business, in religion, in any way, we are conditioned to achieve. Now in becoming aware of this conditioning, then you will find in that awareness if you are choosing, if you are...

K: Could we start: why are we fragmented? Why do we look at life and all our actions and our business, whatever it is, always this fragment, business, religion, love, hate, you follow? It is all so broken up. Why do we do this?

K: So instead of going through all that business why don't you find out, let's find out what is thought, whether it can end, what is implied. You follow? Dig!

...Hold on to them, or let them go? Or if you find yourself attached to somebody, to some ideals, to some belief, if you are at all aware and familiar with your attachment, how far one has let them go, knowing all attachment leads to a great deal of sorrow, and pain, and all the rest of it, which we went into.

And we were saying one of the factors, among others, is this attachment - why human beings are so attached to a belief, to an ideal, to an image of themselves, to some concept, to the verbal structure. And when one is attached, in that attachment, however deep, however momentary, however pleasant, in that possessiveness, which is attachment, there...

...must create disorder. Because being tied implies dependence, the escape from one's own loneliness, fear, and all that. Now to have total insight into this attachment, that very insight clears away all attachment.

...meaning of death. Have you ever ended anything without explanation, without resistance, without seeking a reward or punishment, end something? Have you? Have you ever ended completely attachment? That's what it means to die, to end. You can't when death comes, all that is cut off, your attachment to a person. So the significance of death in its...

Now one has explained all this: the attachment to property, attachment to people, to conclusions, to your images, symbols, ideas. To have an insight into that, into the whole of it, is the liberation from attachment, not at some future date, instantly. This is really important to understand. When you listen to this do you say, 'I will think about...

K: both externally and inwardly. If I have an insight into attachment: attachment to ideas, attachment to conclusions, attachment to persons, attachment to my - you follow? - knowledge, experience. If I have an insight into that, the whole thing is abandoned.

...end anything, we are always wanting to continue. When you end an attachment - please, we are not talking theoretically, or in abstraction, or theoretically, but actually, to end, say for instance your attachment to your guru, the attachment to some kind of belief, when you end it what takes place? You understand my question? Have you ever ended...

...and that pain may come back and be afraid of it - that is, physically. The same thing psychologically. I am attached to you and that attachment I consider love, which is nonsense, it is not love; where there is attachment, there is no love. Obviously. We won't go into that for the moment. So I am attached and I am afraid if I let go my attachment...

...superficial fears of a conscious mind, but also the hidden fears that lie deeply undiscovered. And dependency implies attachment: attachment to a belief, attachment to a tradition, attachment to a person, attachment to the position that gives you status. Now I wish you could see this clearly. In this country status has taken the place of...

So we have said desire, greed, attachment, is part of our life, daily struggling, conflict, occasionally happy, life. And now, let's examine together, and I mean together, what is fear, why we are so frightened. And this problem of fear has not been solved at all though we have lived a million years, we are still carrying on in the same old...

So freedom, intelligence, beauty and love and the pursuit of pleasure are all interrelated - they are not separate things, which we have made it. 'I must be beautiful' - not only physically attractive, sexually appealing. This is our education, our conditioning, and to see all this as a whole - not as fragments, not as broken up, as freedom...

So first, meditation implies the freedom from measurement, that is, freedom from time. Is that possible? Because we are conditioned to think in terms of progress, of gradual achievement. We believe in psychological evolution. But is there such a thing as 'me' psychologically achieving something other than the projection of thought? You know, you...

...because the specialists are multiplying and we become their slaves. Please, this is very, very serious, I do not know if one realises how serious it is. Which means that one has lost freedom. When you hand over your life to another, however well -intentioned, however professional, however specialised he may be, to hand over yourself to somebody,...

I wonder if each one of us, if we are at all serious, have gone into this question, because freedom means freedom from all attachment, and therefore all dependency. A mind that is attached is not objective, not clear, cannot think sanely, observe directly.

...out in the middle of the river with a rope round me. Right? The rope, I am attached to the bank, safely, and I go out. Then I am not free. So we are tethered to a belief, therefore there is no freedom in that. You are tethered to some concept. So there must be freedom from all religious concepts, beliefs, faith, images, idol - all that thing that...

...So to find out, to discover, to come upon that extraordinary thing called love one must have a very clear understanding of our daily life. And that means psychologically, inwardly, we have no freedom. We talk about freedom, especially in this country where you have experts to tell you what to do - specialists. I don't know, you must be aware of...

First of all, there must be freedom to look, freedom to observe, if there is or if there is not - we cannot possibly assume anything. We cannot hope for anything if there is any assumption, any hope, any fear, then the mind is distorted, then the mind cannot possibly see very clearly. So freedom is absolutely necessary to find out; even in a...

So what is order, what is freedom and what is relationship? This is the first thing we are going to enquire into. And from there go into this whole question of what love is and if the mind can ever be free from this tyranny of death. Don't wait or neglect the previous things, that is love, relationship, freedom and order, because you may be only...

We were saying that freedom is not at all possible through any system, both outwardly and inwardly - freedom cannot be brought about through any political or economic system, either through communism or capitalism; no religion, organised, can ever bring about this freedom; nor following a particular little group, separate from others. We went into...

...contrary of attention. Therefore there is no method, full stop. Oh, you don't see the beauty of this, you see. You see, sir, all implies freedom, freedom means freedom from the past, freedom from recording, so that the mind is free.

...the reaction. You see something in the window and you want it. What has taken place? The seeing of that dress, that trouser, that coat, that car, that woman, that man, or whatever it is - seeing, the sensation, the contact and say, 'I like that, that's exciting'. Which is, thought creates an image, you sitting in the car and driving. You follow?...

...Ah, you don't understand the word 'technology'. Technique - to do something, say for instance you want to build a car, and you must know all the parts, put them together, they must all work together. I have dismantled a car, put it all to pieces, and then put it all together hoping it will work. But it did work. Right? Learning about all the...

...that: which is, to understand desire, desire is sensation - I will go into it, I will explain it a little bit. There is seeing the tree, the woman, the man, the car, the politician who is right on the top, or the guru who says, 'I know'. So perception, seeing, then contact, touching, then out of that sensation. Right? Is this clear? Then what...

...That's right, sir, that's right. What do we mean by danger? A car is coming towards you as you are crossing the road and you might die and all the rest of it, so you move away from it. Self-preservation - the instinct to preserve one's being, both physiologically as well as psychologically. Now is not conflict similar to that? Let's keep it very...

...I don't know. That is, there are events in one's life, happenings, that appear to be a chance, happens by chance. Events that occur in random, you know, not knowing, it happens. Is that happening new, totally unexpected, or is that happening the result of unexamined, hidden, unconscious events? Just a minute, just a minute. I happen to meet you,...

So this psychological revolution, of which we are talking about is the most important. That will bring about a change in the world.

So change implies non-movement of thought. This is - you see. Right? Because thought says, 'I want that'. I have had that had sufficient, 'I must have that'. And so it is constantly moving from this to this to this to this. And that is what we call change, generally. And we are saying no, that is not change at all. Change implies when thought has...

But the question is: what is the root of thought, and whether thought can bring about a change? Please understand, this is the question. What is the factor that ends this, the continuity, change, and what actually brings change? Can thought bring change? You understand? That which is limited thinks it can change. And therefore when it tries to...

...form of control. All this, with all its misery, confusion, is the lot of all of us, the life of most people; probably it is yours. And we don't seem to be able to change either ourselves or outward circumstances. Perhaps it is much more difficult to change the economic structure and the political nature, but perhaps we could, if we apply our...

...and sorrow, and if he is a serious man - and I hope you are - then there is only one resolution. Which is, that you, as a human being, who are the result of time, result of your environment, to bring about a change you must radically, deeply change.

And we are asking: I am this, my consciousness is this: fear, sorrow, pain, pleasure and all the varieties of fear, all the nationalistic, tribalistic responses, prejudices - black, white, purple, pink and all the rest of it, we are all that - subtle, violent, cruel, bitter, cynical, and we are always trying to change that into something else, like violence, trying to change violence into non-violence, which is to become.

So the question then arises: what is change? Do you understand? If I am greedy now, or anger, I have been envious, jealous, I have got a great many hurts, if there is no radical mutation now I will be exactly the same tomorrow. It is logical, sane, therefore I ask myself, what is change? You understand? Is there such thing as change? You...

...of what has been, what is dead and put into different words and different circumstances. So it becomes very important, it seems to me, not only that we must bring about a change in the world outside us, but also a total revolution psychologically, inwardly. That seems to me the most urgent and necessary thing. That change will bring about...

...biologically, psychologically, in every way, atom, cells, all that is me. And I am that. So I am humanity. That has to me tremendous meaning. And I am there and I say, is there any change at all possible? I thought change existed in climbing the hill and going to the source, but I find I am still there. I have never left it. I thought by going up...

K: The desire to change, is that not also measurable. Of course it is. So you have to find out what you mean by change. Change from the known to the unknown? Or change from one corner of the field to another corner of the field. You understand? So please be good enough to find out for yourself why you are discontent, and whether you go to the ends...

So, sirs, it is important to understand the nature and the structure of relationship. To change this corrupt society you must change, you must change yourself radically. And during all these talks we are concerned about that only: to bring about a mutation in the very mind, in the very cells of the brain.

K: I'm not asking, saying this personally. You're attached to somebody. And you see the whole business of attachment, what is involved, the whole structure, nature of it, the consequences of it. And you end it. Right?

And also we must find out for ourselves what is the relationship between nature and each of us. That's part of religion. You may not agree but consider it, go into it. Have you any relationship with nature, with the birds, with the water of that river? Not that the river is holy - all rivers are holy, getting more and more polluted. You may call...

Please do understand this very simple fact, that we look not only at nature, which is being destroyed by human beings - pollution and all the rest of it that is going on in this terrible world - we not only look at nature with the eyes that have accumulated knowledge about nature, and therefore with an image, we also look at human beings with our various forms of conclusions, opinions, judgements and values.

...No, no, no, no - why? Why aren't you looking at that flower? Why? First of all, I think, we have given to nature such nature has no value at all for most of us because we say, 'Well, I can see the tree any time I want to'. That's one thing. And also, we are so concentrated upon our own worries, our own hopes, our own desires and experiences,...

K: Completely, specially in big towns, and even in small villages, and hamlets man is always outwardly going, outward, pursued by his own thought, and so he has more or less lost touch with nature. Nature means nothing to him. It is very nice, very beautiful. Once I was standing with a few friends and my brother many years ago at the Grand Canyon,...

Now what is the brain that says, I do not know, the nature of not knowing - you follow, sir? - the nature of not knowing, what is that? When there is a state of not knowing is there fear in it? Which is death. You follow, sir? When the old brain actually says, I don't know, it has relinquished all knowing. Right?

K: Which is, have you, who have understood or seen the truth that you are an individual and therefore no longer - are you still carrying the memories, the structure, the nature of your remembrance, your past, all that, in your mind? Yes, sir, this is a real question, don't...

So, please, understand what our conversation is about, which is, in our relationship with each other, as two friends walking along a beautiful lane full of trees and birds and shadows numberless, we are investigating the nature of the brain, nature of the mind, nature of our heart, whether in that structure, whether there can be total transformation so that we are different human beings, with a different mind, with compassion.

K: We are doing it - find out, sir. But you haven't - have you lost have you had an insight into the nature of the individual and his organisations? Finished. If you have understood that, seen the truth of it, finished, you can never enter into that.

...bear in mind we are going to make it much more orderly, strict and not make it into another resort for amusement, please. Though it has been announced several times, that music that goes on, what is called music - Bong(?) is it? - thumping on the drums and so on went on until half past ten last night. So please be courteous, careful of others and...

...Rien n'est completement. Look sir, when you listen to music, there is the beauty of it, the romanticism of it, the remembrance of it, hearing it in different places, and the association that it evokes, that music, with whom you heard it, how you talked about it, what the critics said about it and so on. So when your mind is occupied then the space...

K: Go and listen to music. The moment that music stops you are back to your images. This is all so childish! Take drugs, that also creates various images.

K: Thought, quite right. But sir, to go so profoundly it requires tremendous, not only courage, but the sense of constant pursuing the same stream.

K: No, no, sir. Is courage the opposite of fear? That is, if fear is non-existent is it courage? Or it is something totally different?

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