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    Sir, learn the art of listening: to your wife, to your husband, listen to the man in the street - his hunger, his poverty, the desperation and the lack of love. Listen to it. When you listen, at that moment you have no problems, you have no turmoil, you are just listening and therefore there is no time in the act of listening.

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    ...are listening now, aren't you? I hope so. That is, listening means the art of listening. The art of listening is to put everything in its right place. The word 'art' means that - to put everything where it belongs. Now if you are listening, if you are listening from a conclusion, from a centre, from an opinion, from a prejudice, from previous...

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    There is an art of listening. That is, to listen not only with the hearing with the ear, but also to listen to the meaning of the word, and go much deeper than the significance of the word, to listen totally. When you listen to music and your particular composer whom you like, and you completely listen, your whole brain is in movement, there is no...

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    ...he has no confidence in you because you are concerned about yourself, all the rest of it, so he goes to somebody else, or he runs away from it. You follow? This is happening, for god's sake! So will you learn the art of listening? As we said the other day, art means to give everything its proper place. You understand? Its proper place, everything,...

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    We talked about the art of seeing, the art of listening, and the art of learning. (Sound of aeroplane) Shall I go on in spite of that? It is a lovely, peaceful world! (Laughter) And if I may, I would like to talk about first the art of listening.

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    You know there is the art of listening, the art of seeing and the art of learning. The art of listening implies, to listen not to your own thoughts, not to your own reactions to what is being said, not to conform to a conclusion, but rather knowing what you think, what you feel, what your ideas are, putting those aside, listen to the speaker - if...

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    ...we are asking, is it possible? We say it is possible only when you understand or learn the art of listening, how to listen. When you listen and when there is resistance to what is being said, that resistance is the outcome of your pressure. You don't listen. Not that you must accept, nor must you reject but just to listen without resistance,...

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    As we were saying last Saturday and Sunday, one has to learn the art of listening, the art of seeing and the art of learning. Listening is not to interpret what you hear according to your own accustomed, easy ways, but rather try to find out not only what the speaker is saying, but also to listen to your own thoughts, to your own emotions, to your...

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    ...Yes. Don't try. Don't try, don't try to exert will, just - sir, do you know the art of listening? Just to listen, not interpret or translate what he is saying - just to listen to the music without the romance, without the association, without all that, just you listen to that lovely sound. In the same way, if you can listen, not try, just listen,...

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    We have been talking about the art of listening, and the art of observation, and I'd like a little bit to talk about the art of learning. We said, the art of listening is not to translate what you hear into your own particular jargon, into your own particular vernacular, or Sanskritised English, or your own particular language, but to listen...

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    ...to put everything in its right place. That is, to listen, the art of listening is to listen to what is being said - please, do it as we are talking about it - to listen without comparing what is being said with what already you know, but if you compare what you listen to, then you are distorting it. You have already accepted the old and you just...

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    ...this morning, if I may, to talk about pleasure. One of the structures of our consciousness is fear, pleasure and sorrow, and before we talk about it, go into it, I think we ought to understand something very clearly and simply: the art of listening, the art of seeing, and the art of learning. The word 'art' is generally applied to artists, those...

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    So can we learn together the art of listening? The art of listening. The art of not only hearing with the outer ear but also listening to the inward ear. Not only to yourself, to hear your own reactions, your own responses, but also listen to what another is saying, so that your own reactions and what you are hearing coincide, there is no...

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    ...one listen without effort, first? Not to the speaker only but to learn the art of listening, which means not creating an image about the speaker, about the person who is speaking - your wife, your husband, and so on - not to have an image when you are listening. Right? Not to have a concept, not to hold on to one's own knowledge and as you are...

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    Now first of all, to learn the art of learning, the art of listening, the art of seeing - the art of seeing, the art of listening, the art of learning. We mean by that word 'art' not the institutionalised idea of art, which is to paint, write poems, you know, all that - and we do not consider those people who live, or paint, that they are real...

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    ...to give a totally different meaning to it. Art is to put everything where it belongs, to put things in their right place. So there is the art of listening, there is the art of learning, there is the art of perception. We are going to go into that briefly. The art of listening, not merely hearing words. The hearing of the words is quite a different...

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    So the art of listening implies that one give attention. You know what you think; you know what your activities are; you know your own opinions, you know your own values, judgements, and concepts. If those interfere with what you are hearing, then you can't possibly hear what the other person has to say. So one has to learn to listen attentively....

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    So there is the art of listening, the art of seeing and the art of learning. And here we are trying to learn together about this very, very complex life that we live; learn all about it as profoundly as possible, that is to know oneself. And that is a rather complex affair: to observe oneself as one is, not translate what one sees in oneself, deny...

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    K: Would you kindly learn - learn, what it means to think together - right? Learn. We have discussed about listening, the art of listening, the art of seeing, the art of learning. And now we are going to learn together about the art of thinking together. Right?

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    ...totally, completely, with all your attention, giving your heart and your mind to what is being said? Or we listen very casually, partially. So first, if one may point out, there is an art of listening. Like a great many other arts in life, the art of listening is very important. If one could listen so completely, not partially, with all your mind,...

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    So all these talks and discussions and question and answers have very little meaning unless one learns the art of listening, listening to oneself without any quiver, without any distortion, without any false response, just to listen to yourself. And also the art of seeing, observing yourself. You cannot observe yourself with your past experience;...

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    So there are these three essential things in the awakening of intelligence: which is, the art of listening, to communicate not only verbally but non-verbally exactly what you mean, and you listen without distortion: that is the art of listening. The art of seeing is to observe clearly without a direction, without motive, without any form of...

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    So, please, as we are going to talk over together like two friends, please listen very carefully, learn the art of listening, not to the speaker only, to your wife, to your husband, to your children, to the birds, to the wind, to the breeze, so that you become extraordinarily sensitive in listening. And when you listen you capture quickly, you...

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    So first, if I may point out, there is an art of listening. I don't know if you have ever thought about it. I wonder if you ever listen to your wife, to your husband, or to your girlfriend. Do you? Do you listen? Or you have already come to a conclusion that you know her or him and whatever he says passes by very lightly, doesn't actually...

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    I think we went into it fairly thoroughly, but this evening, if I may, I would like to begin with the art of listening, whether one really listens at all, not only to what the speaker is saying, but also to everything that is going on around us - the nature, in our families, when we are talking to a friend and so on, whether we even listen or we only listen casually, paying little attention, rather bored, know exactly what the other fellow is going to say.

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    ...but has an insight into this; insight, if one may go into it. First before we go into that, there is an art of listening, how you listen, not only to what the speaker is saying but to listen to the birds, to the whisper of leaves, to the flight of birds, to listen completely. That is an art, because very few of us do listen completely. And if we...

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    ...Isn't it. (Laughter) That is a perfect example, sir. He doesn't listen and you don't listen. (Laughs) You know, one must learn the art of listening. We get used to the voice of your wife or your husband, you never listen to each other, do you? You get used to it. She might be telling you something real but you have already understood it, and so we...

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    ...made the word 'idea' into an abstraction. So could you, please, not make an idea of what you hear, but actually observe what is going on in your life. (Sound of bird) That bird is very persistent! Probably you will hear that better than the speaker! (Laughter) But if you hear that bird completely without any resistance, hear it completely with all...

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    So first, as we said, to learn the art of listening; listening to yourself, never distorting what you listen to. Right? That is, are you listening now to what the speaker is saying, or you are distorting what the speaker is saying to suit your own theories, conveniences, happiness, comfort, this or that, or saying tradition has already said this,...

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    So, if you will this morning apply the art, the art of listening. We rarely listen to anybody. We are so full of our own conclusions, our own experiences, our own problems, our own judgements, so we have no space in which to listen. We ought to have some space so that as two friends, you and I, the speaker, are talking over together their...

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    So listen to it, not what to do about it. If you listen, as we said, the art of listening, to be sensitive, to be alert, to be watchful, now. If you are doing that now, the art of listening, you will see you will put thought in its right place. Then you'll have an actual relationship with another, and therefore never conflict with another.

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    We have been talking about the art of listening and the art of seeing. We said the art of listening implies that you participate, share in what is being said. And you cannot share what is being said if your mind, if your thoughts are wandering all over the place or you are comparing what is being said to what already you know or translate what is...

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    ...because the speaker has a reputation, and you are searching what he is going to say. So all these movements prevent actual listening. Right? Because it is very important to learn the art of listening. Because if you learn that art, not memorise it, because if you merely memorise how to listen then you are not listening. So what does it mean to...

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    We were saying the other day that there is an art of listening, the art of observation, seeing, and the art of learning. Please, understand this. This is very important, because, perhaps through this art of listening, observing, learning, the pressure on the brain may never be felt at all, so that the brain remains pristine, pliable, young, fresh,...

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    ...our hearing is superficial, or the very act of listening opens up the whole problem. So it is important how one listens, not only to what is being said now but to listen, the art of listening, so that one has a great deal of sensitivity in listening. You can reject what is absurd, superficial, that is fairly obvious, but in listening is it...

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    ...No sir. We are not saying that. What is the art of listening, aren't we? The art of listening implies, doesn't it, that there is not only the verbal understanding between you and me, because we are both speaking English, and we know the meaning of each word, more or less, and at the same time we are sharing the problem together, sharing the issue...

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    In the same way death implies the ending. The ending of everything that one has collected during this life: the furniture, the name, the form, your experiences, your opinions, your judgements, your jealousies, your gods, your worship, your prayers, your rituals, everything comes to an end. The brain, which has carried immemorial memories and...

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    ...you understand the nature of living, and therefore the nature of dying, which can be found in the living - you understand? Are you meeting me? No. That is, sir, death is the ending, isn't it? The ending. The ending of my possessions, my wife, my children, my house, my bank account - specially bank account. (Laughter) The ending of something. In...

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    So is there a totally - please understand this - totally ending of something which has been, now. You understand what I'm saying? Wait! Suppose I am greedy - you know what that means, of course everybody does - greedy, envious - perhaps envy is a better word. I am envious. I can rationalise it, say it is natural, it is cultural, it is part of...

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    K: Which is my consciousness - all the thoughts that I have had, all the complexities that have been accumulated through time, the ending of that. So we will have to be clear what we mean by ending. Either you end it by deliberate act of will, or deliberate ideal, purpose, by a superior goal.

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    ...I, the speaker, when the speaker ends attachment, completely - you understand? - not to persons, to ideas - the whole process of attachment, with all the consequences of attachment, when there is an ending to it, there is a totally different state of mind. Right? Isn't there? I have been attached to my furniture - and that attachment has been a...

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    We are concerned with the transformation in our consciousness, not into something other than 'what is', but the ending of 'what is': the ending of our sorrow, of our confusion, of our fears, the everlasting pursuit of pleasure, the hurts, the indignities that one has received as human beings from each other, the ending of all that we are concerned.

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    ...Yes, of course. So is there an ending, the psychological demand, conflicts, ending of all that, ending without the thought of what will happen if I end? I don't know if I am conveying anything. Because, look, I can give up something if you guarantee me something else. I will give up suffering if you will guarantee me that I will be happy with the...

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    ...I consider it mess, you may not. So we are conditioned to a modified change, and I say when we discuss transformation, how to bring it about, I say, look at these two words first: the word 'change' implies that; the word 'transformation' implies the ending of this movement of change - the ending, psychologically. Not the caterpillar, the and so...

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    K: We said just now - let's begin again: there is the ending of the 'me' as time, and so there is no hope, all that is gone, finished, ended. In the ending of it there is that sense of nothingness, which is so. And nothingness is this whole universe,

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    ...most of us after death is much more important. But we should consider seriously what is before death, what is this thing called living, and what is the thing called ending? The living and the ending. What is this living to which all human beings cling to, always avoiding the ending? You may not want to end, through writing a book and therefore...

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    So should we consider, if you are at all serious: which is urgent to be considered, the living or the dying, the ending? Both have importance because that which ends has a new beginning - you understand? - not incarnation. You understand? That is, is it possible to incarnate now? You understand? To reincarnate now, not after, that may be merely...

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    ...gods, end. We are afraid to end - right? To end anything voluntarily. If you say, 'What is there if I end?' That is then you are looking for a reward. You consider then ending as a punishment. So the ending being considered as pain, then you will naturally demand a reward. If I give up, then what? You don't ask that of...

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    ...most extraordinary things that happens in life - right? What do you think of it? What is your instinctual response to the word and to the fact? What is death? Death is an ending - right? Please follow this carefully. Ending. Ending voluntarily, you can't argue with death, you can't say, 'Please give me another week', you can't discuss, it is...

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    ...is only part of the significance of death. Death has an extraordinary sense of beauty. You will be surprised to hear it. Because with death, the ending of something, also is the beginning of something else, which is love. Yes, I'll show it to you. It is good to be sceptical, it is good to doubt, it is good not to accept anything anybody says,...

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    ...we ought to consider what is continuity - you understand? - and what is ending. May we go into that? What is it that continues? That is, a series of movements which becomes a continuity. And what is it, the meaning of that word ending? You understand? Something that ends. Why are we so frightened of ending something whether it be tradition, a...

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    ...be violent becomes the ideal, which is non-violence. So there is a battle between violence, which I am, and trying to be non-violent. Why have we done this? The non-violence is non-fact. I know it is a fashion brought about through Tolstoy in India and so on, that we must all be non-violent. Whereas we are actually violent human beings. Would you...

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    K: No, sir, I'm not saying first, please, I am saying something very simple, sir. The fact is attachment, that is what is going on. Detachment is a non-fact, it is something I have invented in order to get away from the fact.

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    ...possible to end that completely? I am asking. I am not saying it should or should not. The fact is the reaction which we call envy. That is the fact. But the non-fact is I should not be envious. Right? Do we meet this? The fact of this reaction which we call envy is what is happening, but the mind has projected the concept that one should not be,...

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    K: We'll proceed with that. But I must see what I have done. I avoid the fact and run away to non-fact. That is what is happening in the world - all over. So don't run but remain with the fact. Can you do it?

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    K: You see what we have done sir. We are violent human beings, sexually, morally, in every way we are violent human beings, and not being able to resolve it we have created an ideal of not being violent which is the fact, an abstraction of the fact, which is non-fact and try to live the non-fact.

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    JK: All right, let's take a very simple example. Human beings are violent and this has been - non-violence has been projected by thought and that is the duality - the fact and the non-fact.

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    ...is a fact for all human beings, like violence is a fact, and the opposite of fear is courage, or escape or try to overcome it. Right? So there is duality. The fact and the non-fact. I wonder if you see that. The fact is fear and the non-fact is, I should not be afraid, and therefore, suppression, conflict and all that arises; between violence and...

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    ...one is envious and that is a fact, that is what is taking place, a reaction which we call envy. And out of that fact we draw a conclusion that we must not be envious so we pursue the non-fact, and so create an opposite to 'what is' - clear? So if you don't pursue the non-fact and remain with the fact, and the fact is you, you are not separate from...

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    ...it again, in any form. I wonder if you see this point. Therefore there is instant action, which is sanity. Look, if I act according to a non-idea, according to non-fact, the fact is one thing, isn't it, and the idea about the fact is another. The idea about the fact is non-fact, and if I act according to an idea, an ideal, I am insane. Of course I...

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    ...After ten thousand, or fifty thousand years, we are still violent human beings, derived from the animal and so on. The fact is I am violent. That is a fact. The non-violence is non-fact. Right? It's an ideal, it's something it is not. But this is a fact. But when I first pursue non-fact - you understand, sir? - it creates more problems. So there...

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    ...The word 'fact' is that. The past incident without remembrance and that which is happening now. The future is non-fact, it is a hope, it is an idea, it is a concept but what actually is a fact is that which is happening and that which has happened.

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    ...Quite right, sir, quite right. I understand. Mrs Zimbalist's question was, how do I differentiate the fact, the actuality, and superstition, something non-fact. If I live in make-believe, non-fact, it is inevitably superstition - that somebody is going to save me, which the whole of Christendom is based on, then I live in appalling superstition,...

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    ...mesmerising me by being so vehement, by being so passionate about it? I say no. I'm not stimulating you, I'm not telling you what to do. You yourself have realised that non-violence is non-fact, it's not real. What is real is violence. You yourself have realised it. You yourself have said yes, I am violent; not I am separate from the violence. The...

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    When we use the word 'fact', we mean by that word 'that which is', 'that what is'. The 'what is not' is non-fact. Right? Non-violence is a non-fact. But the fact is violence. I am asking why has humanity - you - have invented the opposite? You understand my question?

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    ...it is all right, carry on. So your life becomes an ugly affair. And no god, no outside agency, no social reform, no politician, no scientist, nothing will change you, except you look at yourself, look at yourself as you are, not what you think you should be, that is just non-fact. The fact is what you are, your daily anxiety, fear, all the rest of...

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    ...which is: what is sleep? You understand? You are following all this? I wonder! You know - let me put it this way. The content of consciousness - you understand what the content of consciousness is - your consciousness has its content. Right? American, Indian, big, small, conflict, desires, attachments, identifications, 'me' and 'not me', fears,...

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    We must question the content of consciousness. That content is put there by thought. I hope this is clear. Probably it is not. Let me We said thought is the root cause of fear is time, thought. Some of you have heard this probably for the first time, we have been talking about it in the previous talks. Fear is the product of time-thought. Time is...

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    You know I said, the speaker said previously, the content of consciousness is consciousness. You understand? What it contains makes for consciousness. Right? Have you understood that? My consciousness is made up of nationalism, I have been educated - you follow? - innumerable things. It is the content makes up consciousness. And therefore the...

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    ...it take time, many days, years, weeks of careful examination, careful analysis, careful observation? All that requires time. And is time necessary to uncover the whole nature and structure of the content of consciousness? You are getting all this? You are following? Don't go to sleep, please. This is a very serious matter we are...

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    ...me as much as possible, to be aware of what is happening within that consciousness. To be attentive implies not only to the investigation of the content of consciousness but also what lies beyond, if there is something beyond the so-called consciousness. All that is involved. All right? We are understanding each other? Please at the end of this...

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    ...makes consciousness. You understand? The content of consciousness of a Protestant, is what he believes, his rituals, his images of religion, Jesus and all that, and his nationalistic, his particular attitudes, opinions, his relationship with another, his hurts, his anxiety, his sorrow. Right? And the Catholic with his content of his consciousness,...

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    ...after another, one layer after another, one fragment after another? Will you understand the content of consciousness - the content makes the consciousness, if there is no content there is no consciousness, as we know it - will you look at it, understand it bit by bit? Or is there an understanding of it totally? You are getting my point? Are you...

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    ...one realise, see that one's consciousness is its content? Right? The content of consciousness makes consciousness. If you are a Christian, the content of your consciousness, all the beliefs, the dogmas, the rituals, the reactions to it, the attachments, the anxieties, the fears, the sorrows, the aspirations, the images which you have built about...

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    ...It is what you are - right? If you are free of that then you are in a totally different dimension. It is not expansion of consciousness. It is the denying of the content of consciousness - right? Not expanding, becoming more and more self-centred - right? Let's go to the next...

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    So meditation is - I'll go on whether you understand or not after this, it's up to you - meditation then is the emptying of the content of consciousness, its content. Which means the fears, the anxieties, the conflict in relationship, the ending of sorrow, and therefore compassion. The ending of the content of consciousness is complete silence....

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    ...is its content. Right? Don't learn this, observe it. Now, the content of consciousness is ambition, violence, greed, envy, power, seeking power, position, cheating, corrupt, all that is the content of your consciousness, as your furniture, as your house, as your name, that's the content. In that content, we move, all thought moves. That is,...

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    ...and the pursuit of pleasure. If you see this then you have understood the content of your consciousness, and when there is the understanding of the content of consciousness, which is always within the field of the known, there comes a different kind of energy altogether, not the energy created by thought in friction. Right,...

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    The content of consciousness is consciousness. Without the content is there consciousness? This is not an intellectual, or philosophical or rhetorical question, but a genuine, a valid question. The content of consciousness, of me, is my furniture, my goods, my behaviour, my thoughts, my anxieties, my pursuits of sexual delights. You know? The...

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    If the content of consciousness, which is, my despair, my anxiety, fears, pleasures, the innumerable hopes, guilts, and the vast experience of the past, if that makes up our consciousness, that is consciousness, then any action springing from that consciousness can never free the consciousness from its limitation. Got it? No, please don't agree...

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    ...content must be totally changed because we can't go on as we are, unless we want to destroy the whole of humanity, we can't go on as we are. It requires a total transformation of the content of consciousness. The content makes consciousness, therefore when there is total transformation of the content there is a different kind of - I wouldn't call...

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    ...Wait! I am asking a question madame, you can't say, 'Yes'. That has no meaning. Can a conscious mind expose the contents of the unconscious? Can it expose it through dreams? And what are dreams? Are not dreams the continuation in symbolic form, in a manner which needs interpretation, of your daily movement? Please think of it, look at it. I live a...

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    ...I don't know. That is right. So I'll proceed. I dream. There are dreams. What are dreams? Why should I dream? So I have to find out why I dream. What are dreams? Dreams are the continuation of my daily sleep. Which is, I haven't understood - see what is taking place, sir - I have not understood my daily life. I watch my daily life. My daily life...

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    ...I have, the pleasures, the pains, the anxieties, just aware. Then what goes on during sleep? Dreams, pleasant and unpleasant, dreams which indicate something that may happen in the future, dreams that warn me of certain actions and so on and so on, dreams. Or can the mind during so-called sleep renew itself totally? You have understood my...

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    ...- analysis is thought. So through thought I hope to destroy the images that thought has created, so I am caught in a vicious circle. So, how do I deal with this? You say through dreams. Are your images revealed through dreams? And what are dreams? Why should you dream at all? Isn't that another form of analysis? I don't know if you are following....

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    K: No, don't say no - see the difficulty of it. Because I don't know what is hidden and the hidden may intimate through dreams but the dreams need to be interpreted and the whole complications - and all that will take a lot of time, won't it?

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    ...knowing analysis has no value? Right? You are rather uncertain about it. I can't go into it now, it's too - I have explained it before. If you say I will look into my dreams, I will examine my dreams. Again the same problem arises: who is the entity who is going to examine the dreams? One of the fragments of the many fragments. Right? So you ask a...

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    K: Gosh, how time goes! You see, all of you dream a great deal, don't you? Dream, don't you? Have you ever asked why? Not what dreams tell you, how to interpret dreams, that is an irrelevant question which we'll answer presently. But have you ever asked a relevant question, which is: why you dream at all?

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    ...means the analyser, which means a fragment who is going to analyse. Or through dreams discover all the fears, and that is a perilous road, to find out through dreams what we are because dreams are merely the continuation of what we are during the daily life, waking hours. No? Is all this too much in one...

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    ...state of the brain and ends up in a mental case. So order implies the ending the problem as it arises, and therefore the movement of the daytime through the night ends and therefore no dreams, the body may move and all the rest of it, no dreams, because you have solved everything as you are moving. I don't know if you see the importance of this....

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    Then if analysis, dreams are not the way, then what is? How do you, how does the mind, wipe away all the hurts, the hurts that one has received from friends, from casual acquaintances, from intimate relationship, how do you do this? Are you awaiting an answer from me? Are you? I am afraid you are. Now just a minute please, if there was nobody to...

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    ...sleep is a continuation of the waking hours. And we give a lot of mysterious hocus-pocus to dreams. And then these dreams need to be interpreted and you have all the professionals interpreting the dreams for you, which you can yourself observe very simply if you watch your own life, your own life during the daytime. So the question is, why should...

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    K: The gentleman says why do you say dreams are unnecessary, and if dreams are unnecessary is sleep also not necessary. Those are the two points. Are you interested in this question?

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    ...will you do? I will not analyse, I see the foolishness of it - not because the speaker says so, you yourself see it. Therefore what shall I do? How to expose it? Will dreams expose it? And are dreams necessary? The professional analysts and psychologists say that you must have dreams otherwise you will go mad. Dreams are the continuation of what...

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    JK: That's right. So - that is very good! So can we remain with 'what is', not with 'what should be', 'what must be' and invent ideals and all the rest of it?

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    K: It is not a question of agreement, sir, I am not trying to argue about this matter, so there is no agreement or disagreement. But when we have ideals away from facts time is necessary to get there, progress is necessary. I must have knowledge to progress. All that comes in. Right? So can you abandon ideals?

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    Either you reject all that, or oppose it by clever arguments - the impracticality of a life without ideals, without images, that is what you think. We think that is the most practical way of living. It is not. On the contrary. You can see what is happening in the world, the Communists, the Socialists, the Catholics and so on and so on, with their...

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    ...belief, not to a particular belief, to belief? And as most people have ideals, and it is one of the most extraordinary phenomena in the world that wherever you go every human being has ideals - ideal something or the other, it doesn't matter what it is, noble, ignoble, actual, illusion, and so on. Now ideals are obviously put together by thought,...

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    ...Whether you talk, whether you eat, whether you do anything, that's action. What relationship, we are asking, has thought to action? Thought has created ideas, ideals, conclusions and from those conclusions you act. You are following this? Ah, no, you are not. All of you have ideals, haven't you? No? Haven't you? Yes? Now, you have ideals. I...

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    ...and what you should be and that's such a waste of time. It leads to hypocrisy. And those of you who have ideals, purposes, you'll become hypocrites, and you are hypocrites because you say one thing, do another, think another, and you talk everlastingly about ideals. A man who is concerned with truth has no ideals, for truth is in 'what is' and...

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    ...about a different society. That is the problem: whether it is possible to live a life without any conflict. And that involves understanding the conditioning of the mind which has accepted ideals as a means of transforming 'what is'. I hope we are sharing all this together. We are taking a journey together and the speaker is not indulging in some...

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    K: The content is our beliefs, our ideals, our fears, our nationalities, you know, the whole structure and nature of human psyche is our consciousness. And if there is no basic revolution there, psychologically, we shall be another ten thousand years we'll be exactly what we are.

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    ...in which one finds some kind of security, hope. But those beliefs are also very shallow, rather meaningless, as all beliefs are. Or you have ideals projected by thought, and struggle to achieve those ideals. This is our life; whether we are very young, full of vitality, fun, a sense that one can do almost anything, but even then with youth, middle...

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    K: I wonder what prevents people doing that. Is it their opinions, is it their conclusions, their concepts, their ideals, their tremendous deep-rooted prejudices?

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    So as we said, we are talking to ourselves. We are questioning ourselves whether we think logically, reasonably, and therefore sanely, or our thinking is illusory, based on some belief, based on some ideas, ideals, or on some past experience. Then if it is so you can't discover anything new.

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    K: Why not? When you see the importance of living peacefully, why do you accept fragmentation like that? Which leads to war.

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    The importance of ending thought to observe further, that very importance brings about the ending of thought. It is as simple as that. Don't complicate it. You understand? Are we clear on this matter? If I have to swim I have to learn. The intention to swim is stronger than the fear of swimming.

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    K: No, no. People also, I sit on a platform, you give me importance. I'm not talking about that. Why do I give importance to myself, what is the cause of all this? Is it my education, is it my culture, is it the society I live in, is it...

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    K: Shall we give importance to some things and not to others. Sir, we haven't come to that yet. You see we have already started - what is important, what is not important. I am just saying, look, I am looking at myself, I haven't come to anything.

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    ...If you are not capable, that is part of neuroticism. But I am sure, though we are, most of us perhaps are neurotic, we can at moments, at least this morning, put away our own thoughts, our own importance, our own opinions and just listen to find out what the other fellow is saying. That is all. The other fellow is saying simply, that to be aware...

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    I do not know if you see the importance of it. I do not know if you recognise, or have an insight into this question. Because most of us are very confused, we don't know what to do, there are so many demands, pressures, that most of us lean on somebody - we want to be guided, we want to be told what to do. In ourselves we have no clarity and...

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    K: If you point that out to me, that we must work together, and show to me the importance of it, and I also see it is important but I can't do it.

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    K: No, if it is so, does the self exist in the sense that we have given it importance. You follow my question? When I realise actually, not theoretically, not as a belief, and all that, actually I realise that I am mankind, haven't I really lost an extraordinary sense of my own importance?

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    K: Why then do you give importance to mathematics? Or geography? Or your 'A' and 'O' levels? Learning more and more about history - you follow? You think that is important and you say this is what

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    So we have talked about measurement, control, the importance of the senses and their right place - all this is part of meditation.

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    I have a son, I feel responsible. My responsibility consists in having images of what he should do, how he should be, how he should grow up, and all the rest of it. So I am responsible to the image that I have built about my son. So I am responsible not to the son but to the images I have about him. Now what is responsibility? What does that word...

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    K: But we don't madam, the fact is we have never done it, we haven't stopped this division. I mean if I had a son, or a woman had a son, a Jew with an Israeli woman, what am I to do, they are fighting?

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    K: May I say something without being shocking? Nothing. My son is gone, or my brother, my wife, whatever it is - gone. Which is not an assertion of cruelty or denying my affection, my love. Not the love of my son, but the identification of love with my son. I don't know if I'm

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    ...Let's go on. Look, my son is dead, that is a fact. Then what takes place? The image I have built about my son through the years makes the mind feel empty, lonely, sorrowful, self-pity, and the hope I will meet my son next life, go to a medium, a seance, get in touch with him, all that business. Which is, the mind doesn't observe, live completely...

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    ...that is one of the problems of life, whether it is possible to live without sorrow. What is sorrow? Why, when my son dies - my son, not yours, that's your affair - when my son dies something has broken in me, especially if I am a woman. I have born him in my womb, give birth, and I have nursed him, looked after him, and the pain of all that and...

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    K: But don't you - you mean you see it there but you don't feel it, is that it? Would you feel if your - not your - if one's son, wife, husband killed? What a world this is!

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    K: You see your son looking at the television for fifty hours a day; you see your son going off to Vietnam, killed, maimed, blinded - for what?

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    ...Wait. I'll explain. I have understood your question, madame. I have a son. I have a responsibility to that son. Is my responsibility based on an image of what he should be? Let me explain your question, I've understood your question, madame. I have a son, I feel responsible to that son, the responsibility implies image, and the image of what he...

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    ...Sir, please. I feel responsible if I had a child, a son, a daughter - thank god I haven't got it - if I had one I would feel responsible. I want to know what they are doing, not correct them. I want to see how they walk, how they dress, how they talk, how they eat, what are they thinking about, what company they keep - you follow? - I am...

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    K: You are unable to see that. All right, sir. Aren't you conditioned by the religion in which you have been brought up? Right? And that religion has been passed from father to son, to son, to son, to son. Generations of superstition. Right? So you are the result of that superstition. Right?

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    ...that question. We suffer and put up with suffering, take comfort in some religion, or some doctrine, or some belief. It is a strange fact, isn't it: if one loses one's wife or son or a relative, we carry that pain all our life. Don't you? I have the photo of my son on the desk, I weep quietly to myself. Or I weep publicly, which is with my...

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    ...No, don't say no. This is actually what is happening. If you had a son, if one had a son what is one to do in a world of this kind? You don't face the problems. You have children, if you educate them in only one area, small area of life and disregard the rest of it, you must have a neurotic behaviour. Right? A life that is broken up, fragmented -...

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    So can I respond adequately to the son, to see that he has the right kind of education, not what I think is the right kind of education. I have to investigate what is education, why are we being educated at all. You understand? Why are we being educated? To become engineers, politicians, businessmen? Why should we go through all this torture of...

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    K: I want to prevent that. If I have a son and a daughter and I send them here. I would say please help him not to be caught in these traps.

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    ...in a little way but in identifying himself with the State, with God, with social activity, with the country, with a series of beliefs? Obviously not. And yet that is the trap in which we are caught. And can we be aware of that trap, really aware, not because somebody describes it, be aware of the trap in which we are caught and break the trap? And...

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    ...do I - no - the unconditioning of the mind doesn't become another form of conditioning. You have understood? I move away there is a movement away from this trap, and not be caught in another trap. I am a Hindu, I say it's absurd and become a Catholic; or I am a Catholic and say, what silly stuff and I join Hinduism or Buddhism, or become a Muslim....

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    K: Yes, you are in a trap. The trap of the rat race - right? - the trap of what humanity is doing - wars, talk about peace, prepare for wars, armaments. Right? Talk about non-violence, go to temples, do everything to prepare for war. Right? All your money, your taxes, go into that. Don't you know all this? Of course. So what are you discontented...

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    K: No, but if you realise you are in a trap, and that causes a great deal of pain both physically and psychologically, and another realises, and you two have to live in the same house, what takes place? We are helping each other to break down the trap. And the intensity of that trap, and the pain of it, is making us very active.

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    K: Not only that, sir. Our minds are becoming more mechanical, more caught in the trap, our education is - you know what it is producing, you know all about that. So what do we mean by deterioration, degeneration, decline - from what?

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    K: You are not answering the question. I am a mother. I see my children caught in this trap, or being attracted to the trap, and I see the danger, I see the horror, I see the misery of it. What am I to do?

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    K: So it avoids that trap. That is sanity: to avoid a trap is sanity. Is there an activity which is totally independent of the content? We are saying, that activity, is it part of the brain?

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    K: I never thought, when I was educated in England and all the rest of it, that I was European. I never was caught in that trap. I don't know how it happened, I was never caught in that trap.

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    So from discontent not to allow that flame to be smothered in any trap, and to understand the nature and the structure of insight. And that can only happen when you are not caught in any trap. Right?

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    K: Probably. So one's relationship with another is, when one realises, the activity of relationship in which each one is helping the other to break down the trap, to undo the trap.

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    ...at your japam and your repetitions of whatever you repeat. You don't say, 'Why am I doing this? What is the reason, what lies behind all this?' You follow tradition and therefore you think that's religion. You know, in India somebody calculated three hundred thousand gods. It is perhaps better than having one god. You can choose anything you like....

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    We meet next Saturday I believe, for questions and answers. Next Sunday will be the last talk. We will discuss together next Sunday what is religion, what is a religious mind, what is something that is beyond all thought, what is meditation and so on. We will go into all that. Right, sirs.

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    The word 'religion', the root of it, has not been established. I think from observing and looking into various dictionaries, it really means gathering together all energy to find out the truth. I think that is what it means, after looking at various French, English, Italian dictionaries. It implies also diligence and negligence. A mind must be...

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    K: You see religion is based on tradition. Religion is vast propaganda, as it is now. In India, here, anywhere, propaganda of theories, of beliefs, of idolatry, worship, essentially based on the acceptance of a theory.

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    ...Yes, sir. You know, a word like religion, love, or god, has almost lost all its meaning. They have abused these words so enormously, and religion has become a vast superstition, a great propaganda, incredible beliefs and superstitions, worship of images made by the hand or by the mind. So when we talk about religion I would like, if I may, to be...

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    ...we are going together find out what is meditation. Which is to ask what is a religious mind, what is religion? One can see what religion is not. Religion is not all the things that are going on in the world, the churches, look at what happens in the churches, in the cathedrals, in the temples, in the mosques, in the Tibetan shrines and so on,...

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    K: Right. That we say, that is our life. Then what do you mean by religion, a religious life? You tell me. What is religion to you?

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    ...in Venice or in Rome it's a marvellous sight. It's like a military thing operating, but beautiful. But that's not beauty as we've talked about the other day. So all that is not religion. Right? Intellect, which is the power to discern, the power to distinguish, to see what is true, what is false; that's the power of the intellect. And the world...

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    ...Please, let's go into it, that one thing. What is yourself? Are you not the result of your parents, genetically, heredity, are you not the result of your culture, of your religion, of all the literature and so on; and you are that and the European is that, the Indian is that. Right? They are the product of their environment, of their culture, of...

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    It is a grave matter and we ought to think over it together, go into it together, not interpreting according to our particular idiosyncrasies and fancies and likes and dislikes, but rather investigate together, examine together, so that we establish between ourselves a kind of communication in which there is sharing, in which there is journeying together into the human problems, and especially into this question of what is religion.

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    And why has man always talked about religion? From the ancient Egyptians and before them, religion has played an extraordinary part in life - why? Is it that we are seeking happiness, peace, an end which will not be destructive, secure, peaceful, and demanding that and not finding it in life, not finding all that in our daily life, we project....

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    K: You see when we have divorced conduct from religion, which we have, divorced relationship from religion, which we have, divorced death from religion, which we have, divorced love from religion, when we have made love into something sensuous, something that is pleasurable, then religion, which is the factor of regeneration, disappears in man.

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    K: Gathering together all energy to be attentive; to be attentive, otherwise it's not religion. Religion is all the things - we'll discuss that when we come to it. So freedom means the sense of complete austerity and a sense of total negation of the observer.

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    We ought to talk over another serious matter which is, what is religion? Why has mankind for over a million years sought something beyond himself? You understand? All new cultures are based on religion. This is an historical fact. And all our culture in the modern day is nothing but money, noise, violence, brutality, power, whether in the temples,...

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    ...a belief, drugged by following somebody. This demands, please, that you be a light to yourself, not the light of another, light which comes through enquiry. And religion is sceptical enquiry. Religion is that. Religion isn't all the circus that goes on in the world - the puja, the rituals, the worship of idols, worship of symbols in the Christian...

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    K: Look sir, my question is very simple. I said, I asked, when you are aware of this emptiness, from which you have escaped through attachment and you are no longer running away from it, when you say you are aware of this emptiness, who is aware? It is for you to find out. Who is aware?

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    So, when there is this emptiness, is love possible? And when there is this sense of deep unfathomable void, is beauty possible? And if one is aware of this emptiness and not escape from it, either through self-fulfilment and with its own expressions, pleasure and so on, then what is one to do with this emptiness? You understand? We have tried to...

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    ...the image of each other which is different there is conflict. So we are having an insight into oneself - right? - through relationship. That insight can only take place when there is freedom and emptiness to look. You can't look if your mind, if your brain is full of prejudices, this and that. So there must be emptiness to look. That is, the...

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    K: So is this emptiness within the brain itself? Or something thought has conceived as being empty? One must be very clear on this.

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    K: You see the moment you said Aristotle (laughs), it is not that. How shall we get at this. Emptiness is energy and that emptiness exists in silence or the other way round, it doesn't matter - right?

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    ...is - it must be totally uninvited. You understand? Not contrived, not put together. Which means there is no measurement. If one has gone that far - no, it is not far or near, if one has done this - then there is that emptiness. Do you understand? Now wait a minute. Scientists say, in this emptiness there is energy. You understand? We are saying...

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    And is it this emptiness that makes man cling to something? And in that attachment or and in that adherence to something, is called love. So as I as one must have leisure to learn about this emptiness and to understand the whole movement of thought as attachment, one must have freedom to look. I wonder if you meet all this? Are you bored, sirs?...

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    K: Look, sir, that's not the point, we are not talking about emptiness. You see, you won't face the fact. You talk about non-fact, emptiness. You don't know any thing about emptiness, why talk about it?

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    K: So he says to get out of one's own emptiness, one's own loneliness, one's own boredom, one's own insufficiency, you cling to something hoping that it will give you sufficiency. There is emptiness and I have filled that emptiness with my furniture. (Laughter) Wait, don't laugh, that's what you are doing! And you laugh at it. That's an escape....

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    ...the feeling that you are nothing, you get frightened of it and then you begin to identify. Then you fill that emptiness, at least you think you can fill that emptiness with lots of ideas, with lots of relationship, with lots of knowledge, etc. etc....

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    K: No. Now beyond that emptiness - sorry to talk about Not in terms of beyond - you understand? - beyond means more, further, time.

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    ...Wait, wait. Look, listen quietly. Somebody says, 'I depend on something because I am lonely'. I depend on something because that something fills my emptiness. I depend on knowledge, books, because that covers my emptiness, my shallowness, my stupidity - so knowledge becomes extraordinarily important. I'm an artist, I talk about pictures and the...

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    ...- please listen to it for five, two minutes. You need here a persistent observation, not an observation from any conclusion, or from anything that you think should be, but observation, that is, I am aware of my emptiness, before I had covered it up, now it has been stripped and I am aware. Who is aware of this emptiness? A part of my mind? A...

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    K: Sir, emptiness - to have an empty mind means full of energy. Emptiness is energy. I won't Please, we must go into this step by step, otherwise You don't mind, sir?

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    K: But can that mind, which has been specialised, therefore enquiring into something it becomes empty and from that emptiness you discover something new. I understand that. But without any specialisation, does this emptiness hold every other - I don't know.

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    So we must find out what is our human relationship to society, human relationship with each other, human relationship with the whole of humanity, a global relationship. So what is actually, in our daily life, our relationship to each other, and what is it based on? As we said, the word is not the thing, the description is not the described. What...

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    We were talking about human relationship. It was a dialogue between us about human relationship. A dialogue is not a one-sided affair but both of us are taking part in the discussion, in the exploration, in the understanding together. And again, if I may point out, what we are talking about demands a serious mind, a mind that is really committed...

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    K: Now, when in relationship, in human relationship, knowledge comes between then in that relationship there must be conflict - between husband and wife, boy and girl, wherever there is the operation as the observer who is the past, who is knowledge, in that activity there is division, and therefore conflict in relationship.

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    K: So can I come back. In human relationship as it exists now, we are looking at that, what actually is, in that human relationship there is conflict, sexual violence and so on and so on, every kind of violence. Now, can man live at total peace - otherwise he is not creative - in human relationship, because that is the basis of all life.

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    ...yesterday - I told you that - etcetera, etcetera - memory, which is mechanical. So, when in relationship, in human relationship, mechanistic action takes place there is bound to be disorder, and that's why there's such strain in our relationship with each other.

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    ...tell me somebody understands or not. Look, relationship, that is, human relationship, is our daily life. Right? Our human relationship can be superficial, sexual, business and so it can be on the surface, or our relationship can be much deeper. Right? The word 'relationship' comes from the word 'relate', that is, to relate something which has...

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    K: Obviously. There is no dispute about that. You have your image, and she has her image about you. The relationship is between these two images. Now, the real relationship is, the human relationship is when the images don't exist. In the same way the relationship between the observer and the observed ceases when the word is not.

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    Then what is love in human relationship? Do you understand all these questions? What is the place of such love in human relationship? Has it any place at all? And yet we have to live together, we have to co-operate together, we have to have children together, and the man who loves, can his son be sent to war? It is your problem, sirs - you have...

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    ...you have relationship with another, with another human being? If you don't perceive that - the sea, the quality of the water, the waves, the enormous vitality of the tide going out and coming in, if you are not aware of that, how can one be aware or be sensitive to human relationship? Please this is very important to understand this, because...

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    ...as we said, this is not a lecture, this is having a conversation between you and the speaker. We are both looking at the human relationship, whether it is personal, intimate or a relationship that has no actual contact except physical contact. We are going to look into this. Because our whole external world of society is based on human...

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    ...didn't you tell me an hour ago? It's nearly twelve. I was going to talk about relationship because it is one of the most important things in life. You know all religions have denied human relationship. They are related, at least they think they want to be related to God, to a saviour, to some ideal. The whole religious field in the past and also...

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    Society is based on human relationship. It's a very simple fact. So we not only have misery outside - confusion, chaos, disorder, dirt, squalor, the agony of living with people who have never thought, never lived. You have escaped into words, into descriptions, into temples, mosques, churches. And our deepest, one of our deepest problems is...

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    ...the questioner asks: (Oh, lord, I have forgotten where is it? Here it is.) what place has human relationship in spiritual endeavour? You see what it's reduced to? Human relationship is pleasure, sex, conflict, quarrels, divisions, you go your way, I'll go my way - you follow? That is our relationship, actual relationship in our daily life. And...

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    ...that, we must be very clear that we are not concerned with theories, speculations, ideals and conclusions. We have, the last two times that we have met here, talked about human relationship, because that's one of our basic realities. If we do not establish proper relationship between human beings, we will have inevitably a corrupt society. And no...

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    From that question arises another, which is, what is human relationship? Because all society is based on human relationship. Right? Because the human beings are immoral, our society is immoral, human beings are corrupt beyond measure, we create a society that is utterly corruptible. So, we come to a point when we ask, what is our relationship? Not...

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    ...Agreed, sir, but one realises the truth of it. One has the insight of it, insight into this question. That is, when I try to imitate, or conform, or adjust myself to an ideal, is the ideal different from me who have created the ideal? You follow? Obviously it is not, but I have created it and I try to conform to it and there is a battle going on...

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    K: Excuse me, sir. You are making it theoretical, you have defined it, it is not this, it is not that, it's not that, and you think you have insight.

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    First of all do you know what it means to have an insight? Do you know what takes place when you have an insight into something? Say for instance, you have an insight into the whole religious organisation, let's take that for an example. An insight, see what is implied in it, how corrupt it is, how false it is. Now that insight you can only have...

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    ...sense of the word? And we are trying to see if each one of us can be creative in the deep sense of that word, not in expression, that is, writing a book, poem, or whatever it is, but having insight and never drawing a conclusion from that insight, so that you are moving constantly from insight to insight, action to action. That is...

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    K: Do you see it as silly? Or do you have an insight into the truth that the image and the 'I' are not separate? When you have an insight what takes place? There is no hurt, is there? You have got it?

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    And also we came to a point - to 'X' this insight seems so natural and why is it not natural to others? That was one of the points we raised.

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    K: It is not - quite right, yes. That's what we discussed the other day. It is not an insight of the particular, or the general. We are then stating something quite outrageous.

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    Krishnamurti: That is just it. I can't do anything. When I cultivate it, it is desire. When I say I will do this or that, it is the same. So insight is not the product of thought. It is not in the order of thought. Now, how does one come upon this insight? (Pause) We have come upon it because we denied all this.

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    K: And all the rest of it. We are talking about insight. That is, insight has no time. Insight is not the product of time, time being memory, remembrance and so on and so on. So there is insight. That insight, being free of time, acts upon thought which is rational. That is, insight makes thought rational. Right?

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    K: Are you asking, sir, let's forget about insight for the moment, is it possible to eliminate the centre? That is the real question.

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    ...that in itself is the flowering of order? Do you understand? We are going to find out together. We are asking: what is an insight, an insight into the world of reality which thought has created, having an insight into that structure. You understand? Insight means having a sight in. Right? I think this is too complex. We will approach it...

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    ...the analyser may be mistaken and his analysis will be useless. So do you - please now experiment with me - do you see, have an insight into the question of analysis, the futility of it? You understand? So you have an insight into it, so you will never again analyse. You see? Right? If you have an insight into this question of analysis which the...

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    So we say it is possible and if one has this insight into the whole nature of desire, insight, then that very insight - I have discussed this with certain scientists, they agree to this, so you may perhaps agree also to it, (laughter) but don't agree because scientists agree, (laughter) but see for oneself the fact. That is, when one has an...

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    So one has to understand, have an insight into fear, that is, insight into relationship, insight into the whole structure and nature of thought, thought that breeds fear, that pursues pleasure and the ending of sorrow. If you have an insight into all that you have that intelligence that transforms your mechanistic activity into something totally...

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    So the brain then becomes, because of this insight, which we have talked about, because of that insight the brain cells undergo a change. It is no longer holding to memories. It is no longer the house of vast collected antiquity. Right? So that is that.

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    K: So as an educator can we do that? If the educator is not living that, is not himself involved in understanding his own life and he gets up and talks about the other, and the students obviously spot you as being rather shady. Sir, question it, why has man denied the other side, or neglected it, or vaguely be concerned about it, why?

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    ...kind of thing to me, praised me, flattered me, kicked me around, everything. It is possible. And as a teacher, as educator, to see the child, and it is my responsibility as an educator to see he is never hurt, not just teach some beastly subject. This is far more...

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    K: So the question is then: in education can a teacher, educator, observe his hurts, become aware of them, and in his relationship with the student resolve his hurt and the student's? That's one problem. It is possible if the teacher is really, in the deep sense of the word, educator, that is, cultivated. And the next question, sir, from that...

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    That is, if you are the educator and I am the student, how would you help me as a young student understand the whole nature and structure of myself? Myself being the whole of humanity; my brain is the result of many million years. How would you help me to understand myself, my story, the past, which is all in me - the violence, the competition,...

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    K: As an educator do I know it? Or is it all emotional, romantic, physical, sensuous? Which at present it is. So how am I to convey all this to the student? And I feel terribly responsible. Which means first I must help them to listen to what I have to say.

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    K: When you are learning what is happening? You have got a book, your educator points out, the teacher informs you. You are memorising, aren't you?

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    K: Wait, follow it - divide people. From that division arises conflict - wars, etc., etc., etc. Do you as a student, and I as an educator, see this fact so that I am no longer a Hindu?

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    K: The questioner asks: how is it possible for the educator and the one to be educated, when both are conditioned, how to approach each other, how to free each other.

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    K: So, the boy says when he is bored he is not listening. (Laughter) Quite right, quite right. Which means the educator is boring.

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    This morning what has happened is, the educator says, look, can you in discussing, talking over together, free yourself from your conditioning? Right? Can this be done with the student who has to learn various subjects? Or course it can be done. Which means the educator must educate himself in the very act of teaching. Which means the educator...

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    ...the world of knowledge. Have you understood? Now there is another kind of learning, in which there is never an accumulation. Because the moment you accumulate and function within the field of knowledge there is no freedom. You are always moving within the field of the known. Do you understand? However wide that known is, however intricate, however...

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    ...beyond it? That is my problem - you understand? That is what I want to find out. Because I see if we are always functioning in the field of knowledge, we will always be prisoners, very limited, with certain expansive or narrow borders, which are always measurable. And therefore always the mind will be held within the frontiers of knowledge. Right?...

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    Because when you are acting in the field of the known all the time, which is in the field of knowledge, knowledge becomes traditional and you are then acting according to a past pattern set by various scientists, philosophers, psychologists, the theologians and their persuasive methods, then the brain must be very conditioned, it has not the flexibility.

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    ...That's right. Quite right. The field of knowledge. So you move from one knowledge to the other. Knowledge is the same. So do you want to find out how to live a life where knowledge is necessary, where knowledge is not necessary? Knowledge is necessary if you are a carpenter; knowledge is necessary if you want to drive a car; knowledge is necessary...

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    ...knowledge has made us mechanical - knowledge being experience, memory. So you say, can I can the mind be free from memory, from knowledge, which is, can the mind, functioning within the field of knowledge when necessary, and be free from knowledge when it is not? Then it is not mechanical. This is theory, sir - don't accept what I do it, you'll...

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    ...go beyond time - not science fiction time - you are following? - but actually not be a slave to time, because time is measurable, knowledge is measurable, action in the field of knowledge is measurable, and therefore man unless he frees himself from that field will always be a slave. You may decorate the field, you may do all kinds of things...

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    K: You have stated it and then my mind says - I am fairly ordinary, I have come here - my mind immediately says, 'Give it to me. Tell me what to do'. You see when I ask you, 'Tell me what to do', I am back in the knowledge, into the field of knowledge.

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    ...that field there is no freedom, though we can imagine there is freedom. The mind must function within the field of knowledge, otherwise you can't write, you can't do all the technological jobs that you have to do, you won't remember your own name, speak any language. There, that's the whole field of knowledge, scientific, biological, mathematical,...

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    As long as we function in the field of knowledge, which we do, we are acting, functioning, living in the field of knowledge and as long as we are doing that our brains become mechanical. It becomes routine like going to the office from 9 o'clock in the morning and coming back home at 5 o'clock or 6 o'clock or whatever it is. This repetition, this...

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    So thought is the response of memory as experience and knowledge, so we are always operating in the field of knowledge. Right? Oh, come on! And knowledge has not changed man. We have had thousands of wars, millions of human beings have suffered, cried, and we still carry on! The knowledge of war has not taught us anything, except how to kill...

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    ...together. Probably you have never thought about these things. You have acted in the field of knowledge mechanically, knowledge is tradition, and you have repeated for generations the tradition, the Gita, the Upanishads, or your gurus, repeat, repeat, repeat, mechanically. That is, always functioning within the field of knowledge and hoping to...

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    ...Quite. Do you want me to talk about that? The questioner asks: students have not enough knowledge, have not acquired sufficient information and therefore they are still within the field of knowledge. And there are those who have already acquired a great deal of knowledge and are seeking, putting out their feelers into the unknown, and what is the...

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    ...Why should it be quiet - I've explained. It must be active within the field of knowledge - right? - because that is its function. If I didn't know that a cobra is the most poisonous snake, I'll play with it and be killed. The knowledge that it is poisonous is self-protection - right? - therefore knowledge must exist - technologically, in every...

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    ...value, and being relative it is not all-important, which we are now making it. Now can you, sitting there, see the reality of this, that you must operate in the field of knowledge and yet not be dependent on it, therefore a certain quality of freedom from the known.

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    ...So thought is born of knowledge. And so thought is always incomplete. Knowledge always lives within the shadow of ignorance. So we're always functioning within the field of knowledge, which is our conditioning.

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    ...The other direction, yes. I think our education is responsible for it because we have all emphasized, every culture, except perhaps a few dead cultures, that you must earn a livelihood, work, work, work. And to do that, you know, study, memorize, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. That's all we This morning I met some of the students - forgive me if...

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    ...what we are talking about? Total denial of this monstrous culture that made us what we are, each one fighting for himself. And in this culture we say, we must work, change the world, different values, new structure. Why should I work? You say you must work in order to survive, which means maintain the structure as it is. And the reaction to that...

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    I won't fight, I won't compete, I will work because I have put my brain, my capacity into it, therefore I work very efficiently because I have no psychological problems with work, I will not compete with anybody, therefore my capacity, my energy, my way of writing, producing, whatever it is, is complete, therefore there is no conflict, there is no wastage of energy.

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    ...What do you say? Can we work together? Or you shirk responsibility and I do all the work? And you come along, then criticise. Suppose this happens. I say, 'What the hell do you mean by it?' You and I are involved in this thing. It's not you are superior, I'm inferior. You take the spade. I've taken the spade, dug a hole. You do the same. Don't...

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    ...us, rush off on Sundays to church, just to show up that we are there for god to look at us. And go to the office from the age of twenty until you die, work, work, work - the responsibilities, the duties, the pain, the fear, the anxiety, the loneliness. I wonder if one is aware of all this. You may be a successful actor, a lot of money, but there...

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    JK: Yes. Say for instance, there are those people who go out to various poverty-ridden countries and work, work, work, and they call that compassion. But they are attached, or tied to a particular form of religious belief and therefore that is merely pity, sympathy but it is not compassion.

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    ...Sir, what are we doing now? What are we doing now? You are listening. I am doing all the work - the speaker is doing all the work and you are listening. If you go away with having learnt the lesson, then you will propagate, do propaganda. When you do propaganda it becomes a lie because it is not yours. If it is yours, you are building, you are...

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    K: When our brain has been active from childhood: work, work, work, struggle, pain, learn, don't learn, the whole human struggle, human endeavour, can the brain, which has been so conditioned, can it ever be quiet?

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    As the culture and the civilisation exists now, of which you are part, we are brought up to work for our life, work, work, work, all day long. Right? What a horror it is! To be told, to be under somebody, to be directed, to be insulted, to be beaten down. That is the culture in which we have grown, in which you have been moulded. And to the...

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    ...the moment we die, what actually goes on with our life? You know all about it, we don't have to repeat it. If you are grown up, an adult, you work in a factory, or a businessman, a lawyer, from morning till night - repeat, repeat, repeat. And if you are a housewife, you know all that business, one hasn't got to go into all the details of it. So...

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    ...all words, all books, all speeches, all leaders come to an end. But unfortunately we are so heavily conditioned from our childhood to obey, to follow, to find security in a little house, in a little property, with a wife and children and everlastingly work, work, work till you die.

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    ...in the West as well as in the East you have to go to the factory, or the office, every day of your life. Get up at 8 o'clock, 6 o'clock, drive, walk, work, work, work for fifty years, routine, and get kicked about, insulted, worship success. Again repetition. And occasionally talk about god if it is convenient, and so on and so on. That is a...

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    K: The more affluent the worse it becomes. Not that the poor have this. I don't mean that. Poor people haven't got this either; they are after filling their stomachs, and clothes and work, work, work, work.

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    K: Self. Look at yourself. That means what? Have confidence in yourself? Do please work at this, as the speaker is working, do work, work at it. Don't sit there half asleep, the house is burning.

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    ...that enquires? What is it it is enquiring, and who is it that is enquiring? To enquire means to investigate, to explore. And to explore very deeply, if the brain is conditioned, your exploration, your enquiry will be limited. Naturally. It's like an animal being tethered to a post, the rope may be long or short, but it is tethered. If the brain is...

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    ...I have to enquire something I have to enquire, haven't I? Right, sir? What does enquiry mean? To enquire into something I must be free to enquire - there must be freedom to enquire. Right? I mustn't say, this is the way to solve it, this is the way to solve it, I must surrender, I must do this. Right? I must be free from all that to enquire....

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    ...central fact all the time, that we are examining together. You are not accepting what the speaker is saying. He has no authority whatsoever. Therefore we are both of us seriously committed to this enquiry. You may drop off in the middle of it. That is equally right. But when once you start enquiring, go as far as you can. Probably one's own minds...

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    So religion then is an enquiry and that enquiry has no path, no direction - you follow - it becomes extraordinary subtle. There must be no motive. If you have a motive you have already set the course.

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    ...May I interrupt here? Say one doesn't belong to any religion. One doesn't accept any authority. That is enquiry. If I accepted what Christ or X Y Z said, it's no enquiry. So A rejects in his enquiry into sorrow, everything what anybody had said. Will you do that? Because otherwise he's a second-hand human being, examining through second-hand...

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    K: That's all, that's all, that's all - so my enquiry goes much further than yours. Because I think I have brought order in my life, and I know if there is disorder what to do; and I say the brain then, when it sleeps, is absolutely rested. And what happens during rest, and further, that's my enquiry, it's not your enquiry, therefore I won't go...

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    ...it says, what is there sacred? And it starts with the enquiry not knowing anything that is sacred. You understand? The moment you say something is sacred it is already conditioned. If you say love is sacred, if you say my vision, Krishna, Buddha, Christ, that is all conditioning, tradition. So I start - the mind starts with the enquiry not knowing...

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    K: A begins to enquire, A begins to - wait - in his enquiry he realises enquiry can only exist when there's complete freedom from all escapes, suppression and all the rest of it.

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    ...in life, and what is meditation, if it has any significance in one's living? And in the enquiry, if we are serious, dedicated, completely committed to such enquiry, then we shall be able to find out the whole movement of a mind that is not caught in the trap of time.

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    So consciousness, with which we are concerned, which is to transform what it is into something totally different, which is when there is no problem - you understand? - both biological as well as psychological. And is that possible? That is our enquiry for this morning.

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    ...aside. Why is there suffering? In the very enquiry of it - the enquiry depends on your capacity to put aside interpretation, not escape and all the rest of it - in the very enquiry into the nature of suffering and the cause of it, and the effect of it and so on, in that very enquiry is insight, comes insight. Insight isn't in the...

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    ...which I choose, there is a duality, and that inevitably breeds conflict. So I am back again with the problem. So I am asking myself, all this enquiry, observation, apparently, generally takes time, that's what you said just now, there. You said it takes time, patience, enquiry. I say, does...

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    So my enquiry must be total - you understand? It must be total, that is, my enquiry into behaviour, order, virtue, disorder, relationship with the world and with my wife, husband, girl, boy. It must be an enquiry that includes the whole of my living, not just part of it. So I have enquired into my relationship with you who are my wife, my child,...

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    ...cannot live on technology alone, and its products, one has to go into something that is immeasurable. So if all of us who listen to all this give time and energy to this enquiry then that very enquiry will answer that question: what am I to do? Right? So we are going together to find out how to enquire, how to...

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    ...Yes. What does enquiry mean? Enquiry implies that you must be free from your prejudice, from your hypothetical conclusions, from any form of opinion so that your mind is free to move. In the same way if you understand the whole nature of this mechanistic acquisition of knowledge then if you put it in its right place you are free from it. And you...

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    ...my country, I am British, you are French, I am German, you are Russian - you follow? Why? Is it because thought being in constant flux - please find out, I am just enquiring, find out - being in constant flux, movement, needs security about something? Enquire, please don't You are enquiring, asking yourself this. When you say 'It is my house',...

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    ...a single image? You have an image about yourself as a lawyer, as an engineer, as a saint, as a guru, as a follower, you have an image about yourself. Why? Is there security in that image? Because our mind, our brain is always searching for security, and there is security in a concept, in a belief, it thinks there is security - till somebody comes...

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    K: I may be married, I may have children and all the rest of it but I still feel isolated, lonely. And it's frightening, depressing, and I realise it is isolating. After all, loneliness is the essence of isolation, in which I have no relationship with anybody. Is that one of the reasons why human beings seek security this desire for security?

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    ...Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and so on. Unless we do this, we are going to destroy each other. It is so obvious that's what is going on. We want security, we must have security, otherwise you and I wouldn't be here. Security, food, clothes and all that. That is denied because each country says, 'I must solve my own problems'. Right? There is no...

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    And so when you try to find security psychologically in a nation, and therefore that nation is different from another nation, naturally there is division, and where there is division between nations, in which you have invested psychologically your security, there are wars, there are economic pressures, divisions - that's what is actually going on in the world.

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    But as we are listening together, reasoning together, gathering our energies, is there that transformation, which is the freedom, complete freedom from trying to find security in a fragment. You understand? Is there freedom? Please ask it, demand it, because we're going to go into very complex matters - this is only just the beginning of it,...

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    K: You understand, I have lived in India, and I believe, I am convinced my security is in India, and you are convinced in Pakistan next door, that your security lies in Pakistan, and we fight each other for our security. Right? Kill each other. You have no security when you kill me, and I have no security when I kill you. It is so obvious. Right?...

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    ...world, in the world of communication and so on, in the world of business and so on, and psychologically has it any place at all? We think it has. That is the illusion we live in because we want security. Right? Every human being wants security. The greatest intellect, and the poorest uneducated person who doesn't know how to read or write, he...

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    ...say I like your love. (Laughs) Then you respond instantly. In the same way when you see that thought does not give security at all, whatever its creation is, the object, the person, the idea, whatever it is, in that there is no security, when you see that wholly, then what takes place? You understand my...

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    K: You are saying this division comes about because, the cause, the cause of it is that man is seeking security. I am not saying it is not so, is that so? Security in religion, security in belief, security in experience, security in knowledge, security in relationship, and the desire to be secure brings about this fragmentation. Is that so?...

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    K: So you identify yourself with the nation, as Indians, because in that there is security. And you identify yourself with a group, hoping thereby to find a security. Or identify yourself with a guru, and so on, so on, so on. So this identification is born out of the desire for security. Right? Would you accept that?

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    ...simply do, this is a very complex problem therefore we must approach it very simply. One realises without reading books and all that - personally I don't read any of these books - one realises the brain can only function in order and in security properly. It will find security in disorder and then that becomes neurosis. It will find security in a...

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    ...into it, not casually, not reading a lot of books but to see the fact of it in oneself. So one has to enquire much more to find out what it is that we are... why we are seeking security. Not that we should not have security. Physically, as we said, there must be security. For the baby to grow up there must be security. For the man to live at least...

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    As we were saying the other day, we have sought security in the things of thought - right? - in the things that thought has put together, which is in the community, in the family, in the community, in the larger community and so on. Security in isolation, security in the country, in the nation, in belonging to something, belonging to this group or...

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    ...demands, asks it should be completely secure, whether it is secure in actuality or in an illusion, in a fancy or in 'what is'. You understand? One might find security in a belief - it has no validity. I believe the earth is flat, but the belief in the earth being flat gives it security till you come along and say, 'Don't be foolish, it is round'....

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    So, a religious mind is a mind that has gone very deeply into self-knowing, which is also - please, would you mind sitting quietly, some of you. This is a very serious thing we are talking about. If you want to get up and go home, please do. If you don't want to listen to this, don't, but since you are here - but since you are here please share in...

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    ...knowing all the tricks and the cunningness, all the imaginations, all the trials and travails of life. Then, when it comes upon it, there it is. And that is the nature of a religious mind and meditation.

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    K: So I just want to know. What then is the difference between a religious mind and a philosophic mind? You understand what I am trying to convey? Perhaps I am not doing it properly. Do we investigate the ground from a mind that is disciplined in knowledge?

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    And we are also asking, which is also part of meditation: what is a religious mind? All the people who go to all the churches and temples and mosques, are they religious at all? All that noise that goes on every evening here in the name of some invented god, are they religious? So we have to enquire into that seriously. And if we find the truth of...

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    ...out of the understanding of that disorder is order. Now such a mind, what is its relationship to the everyday law of every country? Right sir? Such a religious mind is an intelligent mind, is a sane mind. And wherever that mind operates, whether it is in France, or wherever it is, it will act intelligently. Intelligence is not personal or...

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    ...the world. And it isn't that one must go through it, but as it is there one must understand it and go beyond it. And that's one of the qualities of a religious mind, in the sense we are using that word, that is incapable of suffering. It has gone beyond it. Which doesn't mean that it becomes callous. On the contrary it is a passionate...

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    So, we should consider what is a religious mind. Religions throughout the world have played an extraordinary part in one's life, seriously or superficially. It has become an entertainment. All the words and the symbols and the processions and all the things that go on in the name of religion are put together by thought. And thought, as we talked...

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    So what is a religious mind? You can only find out if you deny totally all the present religious structure, religious beliefs and ideas because it is only a free mind that can find out what is the quality of a religious mind.

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    ...to survive sanely, rationally, healthily, survive as a whole entity, we need this different energy. And that energy can only be brought about by religion, by a religious mind. Now the word 'religion' has several meanings, the word not what the religious mind is involved with now. The religious mind that is now involved in rituals, in worshipping...

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    We should also talk over together very, very seriously - not that we have not been serious - what is a religious brain mind. What is a religious mind? Sir, we have talked for an hour and a quarter. Do you want to go on with this?

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    ...have such a mind, not the speaker, the speaker is not important. What is important is you, you have such a mind. Then you will find out how to operate, how to live a life, of such a mind that is a religious mind and live in this world. But without finding that out and say, 'Well, let me speculate about it and try to see how I can balance it'. I am...

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    K: Yes, diligence is too limited - that goes with a religious mind in the sense that it is diligent in its action, in its thoughts, in its activities and so on, but that is still limited. I think that is right, sir. If the mind can go from the particular to the general and from the general...

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    ...the intellectuals - forgive me using that word - all the intellectuals in the world shun it, run away from it. And when you use the word 'religious mind', which the speaker uses very often, they say, 'Why do you use that word 'religion'?' Etymologically the root meaning of that word is not very clear. Originally it meant to bind, to bind with that...

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    So a religious mind, a religious human being, one that doesn't belong to any religion, but a brain that is functioning with truth and therefore with great intelligence and compassion.

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    And now, this evening, we are going to enquire together seriously what is a religious mind and what is meditation. Because these two, the religious mind and meditation, are somehow the most important thing in life. And without capturing the beauty and the fullness of a religious mind and meditation, life becomes very shallow. You may be very...

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    ...Actually absolutely fearful of anything, of ending. And I said - I knew him so I said, what are you frightened of? He said, 'I am frightened of separation from my family, from the money I have had, from the things I have done'. 'And this', he said, 'is my family, I love them. And I scared stiff of losing...

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    ...one asks, is there any security, psychologically, at all? That is, one seeks psychological security in the family. We'll go step by step into it - in the family, the family being the wife, the children. There you try to find in the wife a relationship that will be secure, lasting, permanent, permanent being relatively, because there is always...

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    ...Security. Now, you understand what Mr Smith said: it is a matter of security. I feel secure with my family - right? - my father, my brother, my sister, my aunts, I feel they will protect me, they are part of me - right? - the family. Then increase it: the community - right? - move it still further: the nation. Right? I identify myself first with...

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    ...that one knows. I don't know if you have ever tried it? To be free from the known, to be free from your memories, even for a few days; to be free from your pleasure, without any argument, without any fear, to die to your family, to your house, to your name, to become completely anonymous. It is only the person who is completely anonymous who is in...

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    ...inwardly, they go through exactly - more or less - the same thing as you do. They suffer, they are uncertain, they run away from family, they dislike the mother, they love the father, there is separation, there is pain, there is anxiety - everybody goes through this. That's the common factor of mankind. Right? You may say that is not so, all...

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    K: I knew a man, sir - it is very interesting - he told his family, 'Next year in January', any day, 'January, I am going to die', on such and such a date. And on that date he invited all his friends and his family, he said, 'I am dying today. I've made the will. Please leave me'. They all trooped out of the room, and he died.

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    ...structure and so on and so on and so on. So wherever thought takes shelter in and finds security in that, that will inevitably bring about disorder. You take security in a family, don't you? Don't you? My family, my house, my children. And what has that done in the world? Your family and my family, my family opposed to the community and so on -...

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    ...taking place - between the communist world and the varieties of communism, and opposed to capitalism. And the same thing is happening inwardly - my guru and your guru, my truth and your truth, my path and your path, my family and your family. And it's all preventing us from being free. Being free then family may have a totally different meaning,...

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    So, is my responsibility just for the one and for my family, for my children, which has been the tradition? - and the family in the West is disappearing more and more, whereas in the East the family is still the centre, tremendously important, for the family they will do anything, even though they are distant cousins they will keep together, help...

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    ...on another, on the wife, husband, whatever it is, and therefore love goes overboard, pleasure takes its place and fear comes in. And then one dominates the other and all the rest of the nasty business of a family. Whereas when there is no dependency at all, family has quite a different...

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    ...I have to earn a livelihood - please follow this. I don't know why but I have to, to live. I have to do something, I have a family, I have a job - a doctor, professor, a mathematician, whatever it is - and I have a family, my son, my wife, my daughter. And also there is me, with my problems, with my ambitions, with my successes. So there is...

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    When you yourself are conditioned, slightly in balance, more or less, that is up to you, why should such a person hand himself over to an analyst, you know what he is, he is conditioned according to his studies, his Jung, Freud, this, that and the other, and also he is conditioned by his own worries, his own family, his relationship, his position in society, and all that.

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    ...behind curiosity - that is a fact - I am talking about myself, not about you. So, now I want to find out if I resist. I may resist, oh, a dozen things in life - wife, children, the boss, the society, what somebody says to me. So I am free to enquire, free to find out in what way I resist. Shall I examine this resistance in fragments - you...

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    ...anybody relieve you of your unrighteous behaviour or you yourself have to transform your behaviour? Do look at it, sirs. It means that you, grown-up people, grown-up men behaving like children and not capable of standing alone. You are educated, you have read books, you have children, families and you depend on somebody to tell you what to do....

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    ...think we have to begin observing what actually is going on, the actual fact. We have children and we send them off to school as quickly as possible. We have our own private life independent of the children and we think we love our children and we have really very little relationship with our children. That's the actual fact - no? So one wonders,...

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    ...curled, not curled, you want to be fashionable, you want to be - you know all the monstrous things, and yet you say 'I am responsible'. So you won't give up one thing and yet you say you love your children. No, sir. And if you loved your children do you think you would have...

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    K: Why should I be hurt? Why should another hurt me? Why should my wife hurt me? Or my children, or my boss, or anybody, it doesn't matter who it is, why should they hurt me?

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    But, see sir, what we have done to our children. What have you done to your children. You have them by galore, by galore, meaning many children, overpopulation, what have you done to them. You marry them off, or you send them off to schools, if you are rich enough, to boarding schools, residential schools, and if at home you are constantly...

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    K: Madame, if you read the newspapers and magazines, and social workers and all those, they are saying, after a great deal of attention, after a great deal of study, that unless parents really love their children, you know, really love them, have time with them, spend their energy with them, the children either generally die, the babies, or mentally psychologically they are warped.

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    One may be married, have children. The man goes out and may have an accident, killed, and the wife is left alone with children. She feels terribly lonely. Right? Don't you know all this? Lonely, desperate. And she is not really concerned about death, the whole meaning of death, but she is concerned about herself and what is going to happen to the...

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    K: That's right, that is what we said the other day. It is so, isn't it? I see children, students, and I say they must do this, this, this.

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    K: No, sir. I am thinking all day long about my problems, my wife, my children, my career, my research, I am at it all day long, and when I go to sleep it is there again going on, all day and all night, ceaselessly. And it is wearing itself out. Now I am just asking can all that movement stop? Stop, not stop for some days, or some hours, stop.

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    ...All right. Being a mother and having children it is a very difficult life. Right? Is that one of our problems? You see, come and join in the game sir, don't just... I am a mother. I have children, and are they growing up into monsters, like the rest of the world? You understand? Like all the rest of you? (Laughter) Ugly, violent, self-centred,...

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    K: The children are the embodiment of their parents. If that is so, even then I say to myself, if I have children, what is my responsibility? There is war, there is conscription, draft, children like to conform - long hair, short hair, worship Jesus revolution, Jesus freaks - they like to conform. That's how Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini did -...

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    The other problem is: will the parent, who is heavily conditioned with his beliefs, with his ambitions, lack of time to be with the children, care for the children, all the rest of it; and the mother too has very little time for them because in modern society both the parents both the father and the mother go out to earn more money to have more cars and more something else - god knows.

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    ...Therefore find out. Find out if the teacher and the school and the student and the parents, all together want, desire, feel responsible that these children should be brought up without any conditioning. As the teachers are conditioned, discuss with the children. 'I am conditioned, old boy, you are conditioned, let us investigate it, go into it,...

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    K: Or at home. And at home it is pretty, you know, a routine, sex, children - if I have children, if I want children, and the constant battle, battle, battle all my life. Insulted, wounded, hurt, everything is going on in me and around me.

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    K: Either there is more direct action, or 'X' is doing something totally different to affect the consciousness of man. I don't know if I am

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    ...it, a few more people suffering, a few more people not suffering, what importance does it make?' It makes tremendous importance because when a human being transforms himself totally, radically, then he affects the whole of consciousness of man. You understand? I'll show it to...

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    ...is a fact. We think we are individuals - we are not - and therefore we seek individual salvation. There is no individual salvation at all. It is only the salvation of the consciousness of man, of which you are. We have talked about that a great...

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    ...fact, then it gives you tremendous strength, a great urgency to investigate and transform oneself because you are mankind. And when there is such transformation, you affect the whole consciousness of man. I don't know if you realise this. You actually affect the whole consciousness of man because you are the entire humanity, and when you change...

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    ...Mussolini, Stalin. Every strong violent incident, happening affects consciousness, or even the most humble. Now if I change, if there is clarity in the field of reality, I affect the whole of consciousness of man. You understand. It's bound to. I am affecting you now, either rationally or irrationally? So to the question: what value has a human...

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    It is not a particular consciousness, it is not your consciousness, it is the consciousness of man, of the human, because wherever you go, the Far East, the Middle East, or far West, or middle West, all over the world, man, the human being, suffers, has pain, lives in deep uncertainty, loneliness, utter despair, caught in various fanciful religious concepts which have no meaning whatsoever in actuality.

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    ...violence, brutality, cruelty, ambition, and all the things man has put together with his thought. And so when one fundamentally, deeply, brings about a transformation, a mutation, then that mutation affects the whole consciousness of man. Like those rather brutal, violent people who are tyrants, who have been tyrants, who have killed thousands and...

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    ...If I went and talked to labour people they would say, 'Please, go away, we need beer'. We are talking to you. And can you change the content of your consciousness so that in that transformation you affect the consciousness of man? Please sir, this is a fact. Look: the so-called Catholics for two thousand years have talked to individuals, have...

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    So the question is: if you change fundamentally, you affect the whole consciousness of man. Napoleon affected the whole consciousness of Europe. Stalin affected the whole consciousness of Russia, and human beings all over the world like the Christian saviour, he has affected the consciousness of the world, and the Hindus with their peculiar gods...

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    ...Right? You want safety, you want to feel there is somebody looking after you because you are afraid. You follow? So you create that, and then worship that. Just see what you are doing! Going to Tirupati and putting all your money in the bag - do you think gods want your money? Sir, look at it all. You have nothing to offer but money, garlands,...

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    K: If you have money or if your parents have money or friends give you money, then you have no problem. Or you have the problem of depending on somebody, your parents. Then you can play around with all these ideas. And most, some of them do.

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    ...Upanishads, and then trying to relate what has been said to your life. Obviously you don't, so essentially the brain has become sloppy. Therefore, it is capable of becoming materialistic - money, money, money. Isn't that so? Do look at it all sirs. Don't accept the speaker's word and then refute it, or argue against it, split hair about it, which...

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    ...It's very simple. To be somebody, financially, bigger car, bigger house, to be somebody. Money, if you can't have money, all that, you are somebody with an enormous sense of information, scholarly. Right? Being somebody implies, you know what it implies, whether you are a doctor, whether you are a surgeon, whether you are a prime minister, or just...

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    ...at it, see the beauty of it, see the strength of it, the quality of it, or the moon, or the stars - we never look. All that we are concerned is to pleasure, money, and money gives you freedom, power, position, all the rest of it. One is not depressed or optimistic or pessimistic, these are facts. When you look at facts it is neither optimistically...

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    K: No, no, no, please, sir - I come to you to get something from you, whether it is money, sex, psychological freedom, etc., etc., I want something from you. Then what is my relationship to you?

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    ...and I can change that idea tomorrow? But this thing is irrevocable. One must have money - money gives me freedom, money gives you freedom to do what you like, freedom, sex, if you want it, money gives you a sense of travelling, power, position - you know, all the rest of it. So non-identification with money. You...

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    Now, in that becoming are all our problems: I must be better, I must be good, I must love more, or I am greedy for money, and I keep pursuing money, money, money. So you see what is happening? The brain is the result of time; it has evolved from the ape to the present time. It has grown through experience, knowledge, memory, thought and action....

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    Krishnamurti: Don't say, no, we need money. Is money the central issue. Or to have a position? You understand? To be secure, financially, psychologically, to be completely certain, unconfused? What is the main urge, demand, desire of our life? I wish you would Right? Go on sirs.

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    ...idiotic gurus with their absurd dead traditions, which they have imported into this country most unfortunately. And they are collecting money and apparently money is the greatest thing in life - money, success, power, possession. Virtue has become success, both religiously and in...

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    K: ...mental hospital and destroy him. Sir, here we neglect everything for some superficial gain, money. Money means power, position, authority, everything, money.

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    K: The gentleman asks: there are about fifteen or twenty of us who have no money, no place to sleep. And he asks whether this can't be solved together. I don't know sir, you better find out.

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    ...is it that we are trying to become, all of us? Physically we want more money, better house, better position, more power, more money, a better status. Biologically, if one is not well, to become well. Psychologically, that is the whole inward process of thought, consciousness, the whole drive, inwardly, is from the perception or the recognition...

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    ...- it generally is - how he has come to this point to address so many people, whether he is important and what you can get out him. He can't give you any government jobs, he can't give you money because he has no money. He can't give you any honours, any status, any position, or guide you, tell you what to do. How do you look at him? Have you...

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    K: So what will you do? I have any image of myself as an artist and I have to go out and earn money because my mother is ill - so what am I to do? Go on. Do you do all these things, do you actually go through all this or you just yield to circumstances? It is so impossible to discuss unless you...

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    K: Is it? I am afraid of the future because the future is uncertain. And this uncertainty, I don't know how to deal with it, with my whole being, therefore I am afraid. Fear is an indication of this uncertainty of the future, is that it?

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    ...means to see, to observe. You understand? Not observe and then from it a conclusion, which becomes an idea. The word 'idea' actually means to observe. Now have we ideals, which is the future? The future which is going to be achieved. The ideal has been projected from the experiences of the past, from certain conclusions which have been gathered...

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    So, we are going to talk over this morning, first - we will come to the question of fear later - what is your future. This applies from the smallest kid here, child, to your 'A' level or 'O' level, or 12th or whatever it is. What is your future? If you are lucky enough to pass some exams, enter college or university and then seek a job, if your...

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    ...I said that. That means the future. What might happen, what might not happen, I hope it will happen, I hope it will not - all that is future. Right? You might grow taller, I might grow shorter - might, might, might. So the word 'might' implies the future, a possibility. Right? It might happen. The roof might fall down. I might get ill. All that is...

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    K: About the future. I am uncertain about the future, the future being what I have been, what I am now, what I might be. Right? That is the future. The future is physically uncertain, psychologically uncertain. So mind is seeking certainty. Right? Being uncertain it wants to be certain. Right?

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    K: Clear? Think it out, old boy. Think it out carefully. The past is teaching you, telling you what to do now and what you do now will shape the future. Right? So the future is being now put together, manufactured.

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    K: No, wait a minute. When you use the word 'future', the past - right? - meeting the present, modifying itself, becomes the future.

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    ...have been born, all bring about, or shape the mind, the brain, everything, to compare myself with others, or compare myself with what I have been. Compare in the present, in the future, and in the past. And when I am aware of it, I find excuses for it - why should I compare, what's wrong with comparison, all the world...

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    ...physiologically, and in that desire to be secure we create all kinds of illusions, which we talked about. Illusions in the future, there is the old theory that god, divinity descends on earth and helps man to grow, to evolve, to live nobly. That is the old tradition of the countries in the east, and also in a different way in the west. In that...

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    K: What might happen. That is, you might - not you, I hope - I might get ill, I might be killed, I might be wounded. That is all the future, isn't it? 'I might be'. Right?

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    Now let us take one thing: you are afraid of tomorrow - right? - tomorrow, the future. Right sirs? Shall we discuss that for the moment? What is the future? Just investigate, don't answer. What is the future? When you use the word 'future', tomorrow, or ten years hence, what do you mean by the word 'future'?

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    ...what is basically the root of fear? Is it time and thought? Please, we are investigating, I am not telling you, I am questioning. Is it time, the future or the past? And is it also thought, thinking about the future, thinking about the past, thinking what might happen, or what has happened. The future is time. The past is time. The past, modifying...

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    K: Darling, we said that dear. We said future is what might/might not happen. Future is tomorrow. Right? Future is the next second. Right? So what does that mean? Future. It is too complicated for you.

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    K: What might happen. Right? If I fail in my examination, and I hope you all will, and you think of the future, what your parents say, what your teachers say. Right? What do you mean by the future?

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    So my hope of the future is still the past moving to what I consider the future. Right? Right, sir? I must talk to someone! (Laughs) So the mind has never moved out of the past. That's all I want to get at. Right? The future is still the past, so the mind is always acting, living, thinking in the past. And so can the past end, not the seeing of...

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    ...do you think there is something else that has created this extraordinary world? You understand my question? If thought has created this - and there is no question about it - then what is the nature of thought that has brought this about?

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    ...rivers, the mountains, the heavens, but thought can despoil them. So one must clearly understand the nature of thought because thought has put together the content of our consciousness, and as the crisis is there thought must be very carefully investigated - what is thinking? Because all our action is based on thinking. That is, our action is born...

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    So one has then to understand the nature of thought. Right? Can we go on with that? Look, it's a very simple thing, I hope I'm not making it complicated. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, because the world is in chaos; I might lose my job, I don't know. Anything might happen tomorrow, so I'm frightened of tomorrow. And thought has...

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    ...thought is necessary, and the more you think, the more energy, vitality there is in that direction - which is the world of technology. And observe the nature of thought which has built the self-interest.

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    ...name you like to give to it, the higher consciousness, the higher entity. Who is that, who is always trying to control, shape, change? Now, in looking into that one asks what is the nature of thought? Thought in itself is fragmentary. Right? Thought is never new, thought can never be free. It can imagine that it is free, it can create certain...

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    Thought has put together the content of our consciousness - our gods, our rituals, our behaviour, all the things that thought has invented, both outwardly and inwardly And we went into the question: what is thinking, what is the nature of thought. Because all of us live, most of us, on the activity of thought. And part of thought is our sorrow....

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    First, you have understood, no authority, the nature of thought, thought being limited, and knowledge which is stored up in the brain as memory, and that memory acting as thought in action. So knowledge is always part of ignorance. Right? We went into that. So what takes place in the mind? You understand? The mind as we have gone into it is not...

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    ...clothes, their sceptres, you know all the things that show off the religious person. And also thought has invented god. So we should enquire very carefully into the nature of thought because everything we do is based on thought. Your relationship with another, intimate or not, is structured by thought. To write a letter, to drive a car, to be a...

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    ...as intellectual understanding, that is only, when you say I understand it intellectually, you mean verbally I have understood. Now, when you see the nature of thought, then fear with all its weight begins to fade away. I must go on. I would like to go into this much more, but we haven't time. The whole field of the deep layers of the mind, how to...

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    I think we should realise the nature of thought because thought is the basis of our life. And if we do not really go into the question: what is thinking, why thought has become the major instrument of our existence, our existence is the becoming and not becoming, the achievement both physiologically and psychologically, the becoming as a movement...

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    ...let's proceed. To observe, not as you observe a fish in an aquarium, but to observe what we are. First of all, to observe we must understand the nature of thought, which we went into briefly yesterday, and also the nature of time. This becomes serious, please. Not that what we have said a few minutes ago was not serious, it was, it still is, but...

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    ...Or have you come here to enjoy a rather cool morning, sitting under the trees? If you are really interested, not in what is being said, but rather interested to find out, interested to find out for yourself why has thought done this, what is the nature of thought. That means, together we are looking into it. That means you must exercise your...

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    So the crisis is in the very nature of thought. And as we said yesterday, thought is the result of the origin of the senses, the sensory responses, the experience, meeting with something which is recorded as knowledge, as memory, and from that memory arises thought. This has been the process and the nature of thought for millions and millions of...

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    ...complete it must always go hand in hand with ignorance. Right? That's logical, rational. And if one understands the nature of thought, and understands what concentration is, then thought cannot attend because attention is giving all energy - you understand? - without any restraint. I wonder if you understand this. If you are listening now, I hope...

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    ...No, that's what I'll come to that a little later. But that's the problem. To find out what absolute truth is, thought must be understood - the whole movement and the nature of thought must be gone into, observed. And it has its relative place, and so the mind then becomes absolutely still and perhaps out of that, in that stillness, truth is...

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    K: That is, I listen to the statement: beauty can never exist without passion, and passion comes from sorrow. I listen to that statement. I don't abstract an idea from it, or make an idea from it. I just listen. What takes place? You may be telling the truth, or you may be making a false statement. I don't know because I am not going to compare.

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    K: So, this is a really very important question to ask. Instead of separating living and dying, giving it a long duration of time, because where there is fear of death there is no love, there is no passion, except lust. Freedom and passion go together. So, ending - what is it to end?

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    K: Look, the word 'passion' comes from the word 'sorrow'. The root meaning of passion is sorrow. And we all suffer, we all go through various categories of suffering, stages of suffering, but apparently that doesn't produce passion. Right?

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    So, that energy is what we call love, which is passionate; not merely physical passion - that's fairly easy, that's fairly common, that everybody knows, lust - but what we are talking about is the passion which has no cause and therefore no contradiction, no motive and therefore no end. And where there is love there is also death. The two cannot...

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    ...we have to go into also the very complex problem of sorrow, whether sorrow can ever end. Because if it does not end there is no passion. Passion is totally different from lust, from desire, from pleasure. And we have lost that passion, probably we never had it. Passion which has its own intelligence and therefore its own action. But you cannot...

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    With the ending of sorrow there is passion, there is energy, incalculable energy, which is passion. Lust is a passing thing, to be repeated. But passion can never be repeated, it is there because there was the ending of sorrow. And most of us have not this passion because most of us are caught in pleasure.

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    K: At last! (Laughter). Now let's differentiate between passion and lust. That is clear, isn't it? We know that, so we can put that aside, shall we? All right.

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    ...is beauty. I feel to really go into it very deeply one must know what is suffering. Or understand what is suffering, because without passion you can't have beauty - passion in the sense, not lust, not the passion that comes when there is immense suffering. And the remaining with that suffering, not escaping from it, brings this passion. Passion...

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    ...'I am lonely, I have put everything in that boy and now he is gone' or that girl. In India you don't care for girls, do you?, you care for boys - I forgot. So passion comes out of this sorrow. And that passion has no cause. That's the beauty of that. No cause. It is not personal. It is not personal because sorrow is not only limited to a person...

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    The very word 'sorrow' has etymologically 'passion', the word 'passion'. Most of us have no passion. We may have lust; we may have ambition; may want to become a rich man. We devote our energies to all that. But that does not bring about passion. Only with the ending of sorrow there is passion. It is that total energy not limited by thought. So it...

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    ...sorrow end? Your sorrow. Which means, if you end sorrow, out of that ending comes passion, not lust. Most human beings know what lust is. But lust is not passion. Passion comes into being when there is the ending of sorrow. And sorrow exists only when there is this enormous fear of death. That is the ultimate fear. Isn't it? Sir, look at it; for...

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    ...merely escape from it, run away, rationalize, then that which has a tremendous depth to it then sorrow is your shadow. But with the ending of that there is passion, not lust but the passion that is the very essence of energy. But very few of us have that passion, very few of us have that passion which is living, not occasionally, but that passion...

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    ...personal and mechanical - has become extraordinarily vital in our life. Block it and you become violent, angry. And so love surely is not pleasure. And where there is love there is passion. Passion is something different from lust. You can lust after power, lust after more sensations, lust after your own fulfilment, pursue your own appetites. But...

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    K: All right, I have got it. Is there a passion which doesn't wither away after a while? Right. I'll answer all those questions presently.

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    Because we have no passion. There is lust, there is sexual desire, urgency and all that but there is no flame, passion. We are all burnt out. Right? So that passion comes only when you remain completely with the fact and with sorrow. Right? Do it, not as a theory because you suffer, for God's sake do it. You suffer - wife, husband, oh, it doesn't...

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    K: I don't know if I am making myself clear. Wait a minute. That is, if I don't psychologically belong to a group, then I am out of that group.

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    K: So shall we say human beings don't radically transform themselves - they are frightened of being isolated from the group, banished from the group. That is one reason.

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    ...a circus it is, what nonsense it is, or how marvellous it is? You follow? What was your... you are not doing what I'm What do you think about all this, the wars, the terrorism that is going on, one group fighting another group, like in Lebanon - right? You follow? Shia against Suni, Christians against... what is your reaction to all...

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    K: You understand the word prejudice? You don't belong to my caste, to my group, to my ideological community, so I am prejudiced against you. It arises, doesn't it, from having an opinion about somebody. Do you know what opinion means? No? Yes? Have you opinions?

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    ...memory and so on. And its activity is always limited because of its own knowledge, it is breaking up. It is happening in this country, don't you know it? One group against another group. The group which is anti-Brahmin, and the group which is Brahmin, the Muslim. You follow? You know all this. And in this state the mind says, is there security?...

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    K: No, then what? I don't like the others. I don't like their looks, their smell, their clothes, their beards, their hair. I like this group. And that group gives me a great sense of warmth.