A different human being
Can the mind be in a state of not-knowing?
1st K School - Adults Discussion, Rishi Valley
December 03, 1985
Krishnamurti: You all know me, don't you? I am afraid I don't know some of you. Aren't you rather close together there? What are they so nervous about? Come in please. Ah, the boy! (Inaudible)
There's a word in the English language called 'deliberate'; I'm sure you know that word. The root meaning of that word is libra, 'to weigh', you know the - what do you call that? - zodiac, balance.
K: Libra. It means really, the root meaning of that word is libra, 'to weigh', 'to balance', 'to take counsel together'. To think together, to find out also what is the right. That word contains a great deal of meaning. Deliberate, a deliberate action, a deliberate thought, a deliberate move which means a considered, careful, weighing, taking counsel together, not just one person talks. So, if we are to go into all this, I'm sure you are aware - I'm not patronising - that the world is in deliberate going down the hill, degenerating. And also there is a great deal of pollution in the air - except not here. And also there is great corruption all over the world. And as educators, as people who are concerned with all this, this side of life, what is it we are going to do, facing all this? Degeneracy, pollution, and corruption. The word 'corruption' comes from Latin and so on, rompere - 'to break apart'. All right? Am I communicating something? To break apart. That exists in the world more and more, through nationalities, trade, so-called culture, and the various linguistic, religious divisions, right through the world. Not only social, business, priestly class and all that, but also religions - everything is breaking apart, slowly. That is corruption. Degeneracy - you know what is happening to all of us, and also there's pollution and so on.
So facing all this, what are we to do? As educators - listen, I'm not going to talk to myself this, we're all going to share in this, in our discussion - so what are we going to do? You spend a great amount of energy, enormous energy in having to deal with students - little boys and little girls - and what is the end result? What are we all doing? I'm asking myself that, I'm not asking you alone. This is really a very, very, very serious question. Don't please be depressed by it or feel down and out. What are we doing, not only in Rishi Valley, (inaudible), that's a very small affair. As human beings living in this world, with a great deal of fear, insecurity, uncertainty - I'm not exaggerating, please - and as human beings, fairly educated, fairly civilised, considerably knowledgeable, what is it we are going to do, facing all this? Facing your own children and the children of others, what is our action? Not merely as educators, but as fathers, mothers and the rest of humanity. Am I conveying something? Yes?
I am asking you, sirs, a very serious question. We're going to discuss this together, I'm not going to talk all the time. I'll do that either in Madras or in Bombay, which I have just done in Benares. So, this is a conversation together, a deliberation together, we're taking counsel with each other, weighing things, going into things deliberately. So don't, if I may most respectfully suggest, don't leave me to go on talking, because I will stop after a little. It's no good sitting in silence. Either we sit in silence or we talk together. I can do both, so will you probably.
So, as human beings, not as teachers, not living in Rishi Valley with all its problems, like hot water and so on and so on and so on - as human beings we are confronted with this issue. It happens, unfortunately or fortunately, I have K has talked to a great many scientists, a great many so-called philosophers, psychiatrists, businessmen, politicians, and all the crooked world in which we live - not all of them, I haven't talked to all of them, but some of them. And when you put them this question, a very serious, a deliberate issue, they back out of it. You understand? They don't want to think about it. They say we leave it to philosophers, to educators, we have nothing to do with it. Are we in that position? That we have nothing to do with the future, what happens. We have nothing to do with what is If I had a son, what is he going to face? Not a good job - I'm not talking about good jobs and becoming a captain, soldiers and ministers and all that appalling business - sorry! - but as human beings with all our problems; sex - am I allowed to use that word? - sex, pleasures, and our own conflict, ambition, you know, what we are. And are we going to, if you have children, am I going to bring him up or help him to educate to meet the world? Or are we only concerned academically? Good first class academics. Or we're not only concerned with top academics, first class academic standards, but also something far greater than that.
I do not know if you have ever considered - if I may bring this in - they have just discovered in Jerusalem, Israel, in digging, a house eight thousand years old. Just see the stone walls. And India also it is calculated eight thousand years old, or older. So there is India - of course, China is they say forty thousand years - we don't know, but we all like to exaggerate a little bit here and there. So, eight thousand years old India, Israel eight thousand years old, and Athens comes much later. Seeing India - I hope I am not I am not anti-Brahmin or pro-Brahmin, so I'm all right? Am I the safe company here? One wonders - I've asked this question, the Prime Minister (laughs), the Education Minister - what is his name? (Inaudible) They're all peculiar, never mind - sorry! - a culture, a Brahmanic culture, which has imprinted India very, very, very strongly, what has happened to that culture, however wrong, however right, however true, however false, what has happened to it? You understand my question? Eight thousand year old culture, very strong; it wasn't just a feeble culture. It's footprint was very definite - the sannyasi, you know the whole business of it. What has happened to it? Is Western commercialism taking over? Please, do pay a little attention. This is all a very serious question.
So I'm asking myself, and I'm sure you are asking yourself, I hope, what is the future for the students and us? What is the purpose of all this? You understand my question? If I have money and good fortune to be chosen as one of the students here, seven out of one, what are you going to teach me? Mathematics, geography, physics, science, chemistry? You have to do that for me to face the modern world, which is stinking. You have no idea how serious all this is. You are going to teach me that. Right? You are bound to. And my brain is conditioned from the very beginning, from the age of five or four or three to have problems. Right? I wonder if you understand this. Right, sir? My brain, as a small child or a student, I have to it's a problem to write - right? - it's a problem to read, it's a problem to add two and two. So my brain becomes the centre of problems. Right? The brain has been engendered, nourished right from the beginning to have problems. This is what you're doing - aren't we? No? And for the rest of my life till I die, I have problems. I can never solve them because my brain is conditioned that way. Right? So, problems after problems. My god. You understand, sir, what it means to live this way, to the end of our lives? I won't go into all that. So, what are we, as grown up educators, what are we going to do? - facing all this, not just A and B. Don't look at me. So let's talk over together. Start the ball rolling, sir.
I don't know if you if I may repeat, or you have heard, I was invited to go to Los Alamos - you know what that is? There's a national laboratory of America. Nine hundred top scientists in New Mexico. I was invited. I don't know why. I was invited. And the first question they asked for me to talk about was, if I remember correctly, 'what place has creation in science?' You understand? You understand my question? What place has creation in science. I said none. They were rather taken aback. I said, creation is not invention. Invention is based on knowledge. And creation has nothing to do with knowledge. That took a whole hour to discuss it. Mind you, they are top scientists of America. And the next day they asked me to talk about 'what place has meditation in science?' They're very damned learned people those are. And they handed me a series of questions, fifteen questions. First question was 'meditation and science', and similar questions - fifteen of them. And the last question was 'if you were the director of this place (laughs), what would you do, knowing you have to consider the safety of the country, the responsibility placed upon us, the laboratory, National Laboratory, that we have to protect the people, we have to invent new machinery, new submarines, new mathematics, new computers, etc., etc. - they are doing all that - knowing all this, what would you do?' Now I'm putting this question to you. What would you all do? Don't look at me, please. (Laughs) I said, K said, you can't ask me this question at the last moment, on the twenty-fourth hour. We must start right from the beginning. That is, you know, right from man, the origin of man. I won't go into all that. I just play with it for a while. What is life? You understand, sir? What is life? Not - what is the origin of life? The tree dies, grows, we have babies, so on - what is the what is life? Not the way of living. You understand my question? Life. Sorry, I won't go into that now. You don't mind? So what's your response to my statement?
Q: Sir, it seems it’s really it’s difficult to see things clearly.
Q: To begin with.
K: Now, how do you see things clearly? I want to see very clearly what you say. I want to understand very clearly the words you use, the gestures, the face. How do I look at you? How do I hear you? Have I prejudices against you? You understand? 'Oh, I've met you', 'He's so and so'. I've already made a background, have a background of you. And that background prevents me from seeing things clearly, seeing you clearly. Can I be free from that background - however useful that background may be - to look at you, to listen to you, to see what you mean? Not say, 'Well' and push him aside. 'I have talked to him, he is a nut!' I'm not saying you are! Can I do that, sir? Can we do that? Or are we so filled with our background, with our experiences, knowledge and so on, that we can never see anything clearly? Come on, sir, discuss. Ladies are supposed to be great talkers. Sorry, not you - ladies, au generale.
Q: It seems to be too large an issue to face when one talks of the corruption in the world, the breaking up of everything. How does one face it at all, because...
K: Are you breaking up everything?
Q: In a sense, if one is part of it, yes.
K: Yes. I'm not being personal, sir. Why? Bangalore, Rishi Valley, Madras, Rajghat, leave us alone - sorry! Are we doing this? And why? You don't mind my talking like this? Sure? You can kick me afterwards. Why do we do this?
I've just come from Rajghat, Benares - public meetings and all the rest of it. And there is Rishi Valley, Bangalore, Madras. Why this - I'm not talking geographically or the distance - but why this constant breaking up? Leave me alone - I'm doing something, experimenting; I'm not criticising. Right? Please, I mean it, I'm not criticising. I'm just looking at all the world. You understand, sir? Why does this happen? Is it security? I wish you would talk. Is it security that each one wants?
Q: A certain amount of fulfilment.
K: Fulfilment, which is part of security, part of... Perhaps I'm using a word that includes a lot. So, fulfilment, ambition, wanting to do something, please don't interfere - is that what is happening in the world? Because Rishi Valley is part of the world; Bangalore is not some distant island. Right, sir?
K: So I'm asking that gentleman over there: why are we doing this? Why is the world, all round you - you understand, sir? - why is this happening? Tremendous armaments are being built up; I don't know if you are aware of it. On television last year, I think it was on the fourth channel in England, the manufacturer of armaments was saying, 'Eighty percent of our production goes abroad'. Getting up and saying that on television!
Q: Sir, are you implying that when I try to find fulfilment in something I am doing, it is directly related to the arms race?
K: Yes. I want to find out. All those ladies, they talk an awful lot all right, don't they?
Q: We’re just shy. For the first time.
K: We are shy. So am I. You may not think so, but I'm a shy, rather retiring person. So if you don't join me, I have to...
Q: I wanted to ask, taking up from Radikaji’s question, seeing that a certain amount of fulfilment need not – I mean to my mind – need not lead to separation, unless I feel that my fulfilment is threatened by the others’ involvement or the...
Q: There is conflict.
Q: Yes, unless I...
Q: No, but he is implying something more radical. Whether it conflicts with someone else’s or not, it doesn’t Seeking of fulfilment will inevitably lead to I think he is saying something more radical.
K: I don't understand what you are saying, sir.
Q: I said a bit earlier, why the separation of...
K: Why are we If I'm married, why am I separate from my wife? I think differently, she thinks differently. Her ambition is to become Governor and my ambition is to be something else. Why this - you understand, sir? - this constant breaking up? - which is the beginning of corruption. I don't know if you follow it means. The word 'corruption', as I said, comes from the Latin, rompere, which means 'to break up', never a whole, but always breaking, breaking, breaking. And one of the things Radakaji said: fulfilment. Fulfilment in what? We use that word very easily. Fulfilling in what? Fulfilling my desire? My pleasure? My sense of righteousness? You understand, sir? What do you mean by that word, 'fulfilment'?
Q: Sir, doing things, solving problems, creating situations, institutions that will be recognised by...
K: That means what?
Q: That work, that are good in themselves, and that would be recognised.
K: Go to the root of it; what does it mean?
Q: Sir, being in a situation there are problems. One sees things as problems.
K: No, I want to know what you mean by the word 'fulfilment'. Fulfil - right? I want to fulfil what?
Q: Sir, I see myself as having certain talents and I see a problem, and I see a solution...
K: No, you have a talent. No, you create a problem.
Q: Sir, no, sir
K: Wait a moment. I'm a good chemist. PhD from - where? (Laughs) Some awful little place - right? - or big place. And that gives me a sense of position, power.
Q: Eventually, that’s the outcome of achieving.
K: No, wait. My ambition says I must Right?
Q: Sir, it can be mixed, it can be...
K: Go step by step, step by step. I'm asking you what does that word mean? Fulfilling what? Money, power, status - those are the three things that count.
Q: Sir, it doesn’t have to be so crass. It may be something a little more...
Q: ...subtle. (Laughter)
K: But money's never subtle.
Q: Money may not be subtle, but...
Q: Admiration, vanity, yes.
K: All included when I have power, money, all that is given to me.
Q: I think the implication is that there is a fulfilment in good work.
K: Good work. All right. Fulfilment.
Q: You can justify your life.
K: No. I am asking you, what do you mean by 'fulfilment'? You don't answer that question. I know
Q: A feeling of having done something.
K: Yes, yes. Righteous, wrong, but I am asking you what you mean by the word, and you go around it. So please, ladies have...
Q: A sense of satisfaction at having achieved an objective.
K: Yes, sir, yes, sir, that's understood. Having, being gratified because you have achieved that.
Q: Yes, sir.
K: But what? And then from that you have something else. And you keep the circle going till you die. Not you, sir. You are not answering. Fulfilment implies a basic, deep desire to do something. What do you say to that? Deep desire. A longing, a feeling...
Q: Yes, exactly.
Q: Krishnaji, would it also imply – the very word ‘fulfilment’ – a sense of lack of completeness in oneself?
K: Yes, sir. That's what I want to get at - you follow? Why do we feel the need for fulfilment? You understand my question? The need, not, 'I must fulfil'. That sounds so cheap. I'm sorry! The need for fulfilment, which implies an emptiness.
Q: Yes, exactly.
K: That's it. A sense of nothingness inside - 'Ah, I must fulfil'. Right, sir? Would you say it? Now, why do I feel so empty inside? I've got all the money, a good wife or ugly wife or mischievous wife, or a very talkative wife (laughs) - I won't look at them - and so on. Is there something beyond this emptiness? You understand? This emptiness in me says, 'I must fulfil, I must do'. But I'm asking you is there something beyond this that's much more - I won't go into it. Sir, would you please discuss with me something, what we have been talking about. You spend your energy enormously - you've no idea how much energy you spend each day, and that energy is consumed by your students, and the students are consumed by society - right? Right?
Q: And by us.
K: Of course, of course, that's understood. And also you, you expend tremendous energy. Right, sir? What for? What for, in relation to the world, not just... So I'm asking, is it possible - please, I'm just asking these questions - is it possible to bring about a totally different human being? You understand? Not educationally - more knowledge, more independence, more this and more that - I am not talking of that. Better human being - not that. Something entirely a holistic human being. I don't know if I'm Gosh, you are all so silent.
Q: Why did you say, sir, non-educationally? Can you bring it about non-educationally, you said.
K: Oh no, you can't use non-educational; you become then a savage.
Q: So not as a result of a whole process.
K: No, I want to find out - it takes a little time, right? - I want to find out, if I'm going to spend thirty years of my life in the educational field at Rishi Valley, I ask myself is the material good enough - material, you understand what I mean? - the student, the parent, grandparent - is it good enough for me to expend that enormous energy on that boy or girl? Or - wait a minute - or am I demanding something which I am not myself living? I don't know Comprehend?
Q: Yes, sir.
K: That raises a totally different question - I won't enter into that for the moment.
Somebody said to me, 'God, sir, what you say is so true, why are you wasting you life on this? Nobody listens to you. Look at them. They come here out of curiosity, another nut from the East or West. Another of those', because K happened to have an Indian name, therefore they say he must be something odd. Here a crazy person becomes a saint. In America they put him in an asylum. (Laughs) That's all the difference.
So, I'm asking you - please talk to me won't you.
Q: Sir, we don’t ask these questions.
K: Ask them now.
K: Ask them, sir.
Q: The question of what we this transformation of the student.
K: No, transformation means to transfer the same being - we are talking of not transformation but total revolution. Not communist, not socialist, not democratic, republic, etc., but the human brain which has existed for two million years has evolved in the sense it has evolved but it is still the savage - right? - still the cruel, brutal, self-centred, you know, all that - we haven't evolved from that. We killed a man with a club, now we'll blow up millions, evaporate them, nothing remains of them, and that's called progress. But we haven't changed very much. That's all.
So please, I'm asking you - not to depress you, not to elate you all - we have got to face this problem in life. I expend lots of energy in a school as an educator, immense, incredible amount of energy and, again, there is this terrible society - he has to be married or she has to be married, and begins the whole problem of sex, children, and the mother is a slave to the child for five years - you understand, sir? If you have money you have nurses, and all that. So, what are you all doing? This is not a depressing question, please. On the contrary.
Q: Sir, I think it is not the wastage of energy when we spend so much time with students, even though the students they may not receive anything – suppose – but in this process we are learning something in our lives, so it is not a wastage of energy.
K: I see. What are you learning?
Q: Learning about ourselves.
K: Are you?
Q: Yes, sir.
K: How long will you take?
Q: No, it is learning...
K: Ah, ah!
Q: It has nothing to do with time, sir.
K: No, just a minute, sir - oh, yes it has - forgive me. So, hasn't it to do with time? You say it has nothing to do with time. Hasn't it to do with time? Learning: I learn one day this and I learn another day that, and keep on adding - right? Right, sir? Would you agree to that? Keep on adding.
Q: No, sir. I do not add.
K: No, go ahead, tell me.
Q: Learning is always in the present.
Q: It is learning as things are happening. You be aware of it, what is happening within you.
K: Yes, yes, you are aware of it. This becomes an argument. We're not arguing, sir, we're just investigating. What do you mean by learning? This is a general question, sir. What do you mean by learning? I don't know anything but I'm adding, I'm learning. I don't know two and two make four but I'm learning. Right? Right, sir? Right?
Q: That’s what it usually means.
K: No, I'm coming to that. This is what happens, sir - not 'usually' - this is what is happening in the world. I don't know chemistry but I'm learning. Which means I'm memorising. Right? Would you agree to all this? Hey! What's happened to all of you? You are all
Q: Sir, there’s another learning in human relations, when you see something and you say, OK, I learned something, meaning probably I won’t repeat this mistake again.
K: Which means what, sir? Careful, careful, careful.
Q: You’re sensitive
K: No, sir. When you say, 'It won't happen again', it means what?
Q: Something new has taken place.
K: No, sir. Just look - when you say, 'It won't happen again', what does it mean?
Q: That I have learned from it and I am carrying the knowledge to the future in order to apply it.
K: Yes, which means what? Learning, as far as we see now, is a continuation of memory, increasing more and more and more. Memorising. It won't happen again.
Q: You’re not telling yourself that it won’t happen again. It’s a feeling.
K: It's a feeling you tell your wife, your father, your mother, or your child. But it's still - when you say 'it won't' it's a determination. I won't go into all this. Words. Sir, please answer my question, would you? What is learning? There they are, 340 boys, girls. You are teaching them to learn. Right? No? Why are you all so silent? What's the matter with you? Aren't you teaching them to learn?
K: What the heck is the matter with you? (Laughs) There's nothing wrong. So you're teaching them to memorise - right? - what you call learning is memorising.
Q: It can also be a sense of discovery, sir.
K: Yes, sir. It may be discovery. For the moment just look at it. It may also mean a dozen other things. But I don't know how to read and write. You send your daughter to the school and she copies. Her hand is held and draw 'A' 'B' 'C' or 'Om' or whatever you do. Which is, you are guiding her hand, helping her to practice, helping her to memorise, to follow that line exactly - right? - which is becoming a problem to me as a child. I want to go and play! So, learning has now become a process of slow or rapid memorising. Be simple about it, sir. What are you all objecting to this?
Q: Sir, because part of us thinks that it’s a little more sophisticated than just the slow repetition.
K: Yes, but the greatest scientist is part of this. Memorise. Unless he's got a great log of memory...
Q: Yes, and things fall into a new pattern.
K: Oh gosh, why do you object to such a simple thing? Right, sir? What do you say?
Q: I was only wondering, sir, to come back to what you said earlier: what are we all doing here
K: But you don't answer me. If I send my child to you, I want him to be good at academics, otherwise present society will see that he's destroyed. Right? So, please give me that first. Right? Then, I say to you, make him more... - you follow? - something much more than becoming a BA, PhD, and all that nonsense. He must have all that nonsense, but make him something much more. Can you? That's all my question. Help him to become a holistic human being. Right, sir? Not good...
Q: I have a problem, sir.
K: No, no, answer my question first. Sorry - I know you have problems. Hold it a minute, sir. Will you, the people who live here who are responsible for educating my son, I say to you, 'Please, sir, I don't want him to become a glorified clerk', which is the Governor - I travelled with one of them - glorified Governor or a glorified Prime Minister, or whatever it is; I want him to be an extraordinary human being, holistic, feel, be sensitive, be alive, look at the birds. You follow? Take up something much more than bread and butter. And I say, 'Please, here it is'. Don't experiment on him. He's a human being, like you. Don't say, 'You must do this', 'You must do that', 'You can't do this', 'You can't do that'. So, how will you bring that about? That's my question.
Q: I think the way you are beginning it, the way you have put the question, ‘make my child an extraordinary being’, if you come to me I would say, ‘Look, I don’t know what this extraordinary being you are referring to’.
K: So what am I going to do?
Q: So let’s find out.
K: How long?
K: Sir, don't fool around. How long will you take? Another ten years when the boy becomes cynical, already joined a gang and all the rest of it?
Q: Sir, what do you mean by extraordinary You can’t put pressure on me – how long?
K: Look, old boy. What happens to You must have noticed this. Boys and girls up to that certain age are very clever - smile, alive, watching, asking questions.
Q: And also in contradiction.
K: Of course - a child.
Q: Yes, sir. But you must say that.
K: He's a child. At a certain age the whole thing goes.
Q: The idea of responsibility
Q: I’m telling you why. I’ve watched it.
K: Oh, god! I'm asking you, sir.
Q: Is it partly because we have not shown him any alternative? He has never known anything different.
K: No, I'm not asking anything different, darling, I'm asking you - you must have noticed the boy and the girl reach a certain age - gone. Right? Suddenly becomes dull, suddenly becomes totally unaware of things. He wants to become the Prime Minister, or the Chief Secretary or the Governor, or big business. You follow what I mean? The real thing is gone. Why? You never ask these questions.
Q: Because we have not drawn his attention to the real thing.
K: It's not there as it was.
Q: But when it was there, or if it was there, we have not...
K: Yes, I'm taking it for Say if it was there.
Q: If it was there
K: I've talked - wait a minute - I've talked to those children for the last twenty years, thirty years. A couple of boys get up and very smart, bright. I say come and sit down; they sit down beside me, we talk and all the rest of it. I come back next year, the same boys are totally different - or the girl. Why? Is it puberty? Is it glands? Is it - you don't seem to enquire into this.
Q: Because they have conformed to something.
K: Yes. Why do they want to conform? Last year they didn't.
Q: Sir, because they are getting older and there is the pressure of the...
K: Is there a way - just a minute. I have asked several biologists and all the others, professional, top people, I say, is there a way of preventing all this? Or is it inevitable? Or is it natural course of things? You understand what I mean? Find out, let's...
Q: Sir, there are a lot of pressures on children to conform.
K: I know that, sir. At the age of twelve, thirteen, they don't even know anything about that.
Q: But they pick it up.
K: What makes them pick it up? What makes them feel all this?
Q: Sir, because they have no alternate feeling of anything, and we don’t give them that alternate way of feeling.
K: I question all you are saying. Because you haven't you are finding excuses.
Q: No, sir. Otherwise why should it become almost inevitable course, unless you have an alternative? If they saw an alternative which was as vital at the pressure, then they wouldn’t...
K: Then give an alternative.
Q: But, sir, we must give the alternative.
K: You, give me an alternative.
Q: Sir, then that’s the problem. Do I have an...
K: Don't talk about it. Give me an alternative route.
K: Instead of following the same old road.
Q: But, sir, how am I going to do it?
K: Don't ask how. That's the worst thing you can ask. Then you... Can we enquire into this? You're all teachers, you're all dealing with children, you're all bored, strained, annoyed, all the rest of it. Is there another alternative? The present is this. Right? Same old bananas. I'm saying, is there another way of approaching the whole thing?
Q: And sir, may I add to that, and can I convey to the child sufficiently vividly that he’s drawn naturally into that thing?
K: I'm sure you can. If you have the stuff in you. If your brain is that, you can never You follow?
Are these meetings worth it? Ladies? Don't smile. (Laughs) Are these meetings worth it?
Q: Yes, sir.
K: What have you contributed to it?
Q: Sir, when we ask, ‘isn’t there an alternative?’, we are also asking, isn’t there an alternative to knowledge?
K: Oh yes, there is.
Q: Not in the sense that there shouldn’t be skills and so on.
K: First of all, sir, we have followed this road for two million years - right? - and we have so-called evolved along that road. You come along and say, 'Don't be so damned stupid - there is another way of doing all this'. Will I listen to you? Will you listen to me?
Q: Not unless I can make it palpable.
Q: Yes, sir.
K: There is no profit in this.
Q: But there is no profit, so...
K: Please, this requires no motive, no profit, no position, no power - totally different from this. Not different - different means opposite. Is there something away from this? Will you listen to the man who says, 'Look, there is a totally different way'? Will you listen to him?
Q: Sir, first I will look at him to see...
K: Yes, look at me!
Q: I might listen to you, sir. (Laughs)
K: Because you like my face. Like the man said.
Q: Sir, I have a small confusion. From what you said earlier, it seems that just as you draw a line where man has gone for two million years and then you come and tell him, ‘Take this path’. From what you said it looks as if the child up to a particular age was alive, is on that path, and it is subsequently that you bring him back into this. That is, we bring the child back into this...
K: Or, it's a glandular change. You must take everything, sir, don't just...
Q: A biological...
K: Biological. And if it is biological, can we? Sir, I ask these questions, biologists and all the rest of it - they don't know. You understand? Probably they never even asked that question.
Please, would you mind, I have to stop. Do you like this kind of meeting? What?
K: Nobody says anything.
K: Why? Why do you like this kind of meeting? Well, I'm talking most of the time. (Laughs)
Q: It’s starts an enquiry and introspection.
Q: No, enquiry and an introspection.
K: Perhaps this is a terrible thing. (Laughter)
Q: It really, at least helps us or me look into matters that interest us. I need it as a catalyst
K: That's why I'm asking you, sir. Is it worthwhile going on with these meetings?
Q: I would say yes.
Q: There’s no doubt about that, sir.
K: Ask them. All the men on one side, all the women on the other! (Laughs) God, you still are Indians, aren't you!
K: Tomorrow, or when we next meet, you're all sit mixed up! (Laughs) Right? Not all the men on this side (laughs), like the zoo! When shall we meet again? You arrange it. I don't know - you tell me.
Q: There’s a children’s talk in between.
K: Yes. You arrange it and tell me.
Is that enough for today?
K: Bombardment. (Gap) great many scientists, a great many blah, blah, blah, blah - right? - I talk to ministers, prime ministers, all that rot, and they kind of say to me, 'Oh, I want to learn a great deal from you'. The next moment they're telling about Rig Veda! (Laughs)