I am used to an audience sitting on chairs! Well, let's start it. As we are going to have discussions tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, I will talk for an hour and then we will continue what we have said this evening, tomorrow. And the day after tomorrow is a dialogue.

Perhaps it would be good if we could establish between ourselves, between the speaker and you, a communication which is not only verbal, but also a non-verbal communication. The words are never the thing. The description is never the described. So we are not only communicating with each other at the verbal level, that is, at the descriptive level, using words which are common in English language, without any jargon, and to go very deeply, if we can this evening and the other evening when we talk, go very deeply into the whole nature of consciousness and if that consciousness of human beings can be transformed. That is what we are going to talk over together. Communication implies that we share together, not that you merely listen, accept or reject, translate what is being said according to your own particular idiosyncrasies or like and dislike, but communication implies that both of us, you and the speaker, partake in the problems as they actually are, not theories, not some vague or definite conclusions, but we are dealing with facts as they are, what is actually going on. Without understanding what is actually going on, mere theories and conclusions or hopes have very little significance.

So we are together exploring these problems of human beings, of humanity. Together. Please bear in mind, together we are exploring, investigating into our psychological problems, human problems. And unless you resolve those problems by understanding, by observing and going beyond them, there is very little chance for human beings, right throughout the world, to continue or enter into a world of actual freedom. So when we are talking over together this problem, our human problems, please bear in mind, right from the beginning, that we are dealing, going, exploring, taking a journey together. I am not your leader or your guru, or followers because that to me is an abomination, that destroys all creative spirit and the understanding what truth is. So there is no authority. There are no leaders in this investigation. We are together exploring. So it's your responsibility as well as the speaker's that we go into these matters very carefully, diligently, wisely. So that is the essence of communication: that we both understand what is being said, share what is being said, neither accepting or rejecting or translating it into an idea, which is an abstraction and therefore non-reality.

And in exploring we must, for the time being at least, I hope, put aside our particular prejudices, your conclusions, what you have read or not read, or your knowledge and so on. To investigate into this enormous problem of human existence with all the miseries, confusion, travail, sorrow, unhappiness, fear and the eventual problem of death, and love. All this demands that one pay a great deal of attention, that one become very serious in this matter, not just listen casually and play with this and go off and do something else. So I hope we together understand what is being said.

Wherever you go in the world, in the East, America, Europe, human beings are going through the same phenomena of fear, pursuit of pleasure, great sorrow, the lack of love and the fear of death. This is the common problem of humanity, not only problems of an individual but of humanity, of which you are. Right? That is, the world, psychological world is you and you are that world. You are not different. If I may point out most respectfully, you are not different from the American, Russian, Chinese, European or anybody, or African. We are all going through the same confusion, conflict, misery, anxiety, lack of affection, care, love, caught in various sects, various beliefs. So we are the world and the world is you. This is not an idea, not a conclusion, but an actual psychological fact: fact as there is - if you are married, there is a wife - as actual as that. I hope this is very clear that you are psychologically the world and the world is you. You may have brown skin, black skin, white skin or yellow skin, but wherever you go and observe, human beings are caught in this trap of misery, anxiety, sorrow, frightened and everlastingly pursuing pleasure. That's a fact, isn't it? That's a fact, as this is a fact: the microphone is a fact. So we are dealing with facts, what actually is and not with theories, dogmas, beliefs, but concerned in the transformation of the fact.

(Sound of train) We'll - a minute, the train. The train takes a long time to cross! And also we are going to talk over together the question of time; whether thought can end and what is meditation. We are going to deal with all these things in these two talks. So we are asking: is it possible to transform, change radically the human psychological structure? You understand my question? The human psychological structure is its consciousness, psychologically. This consciousness contains the many hurts, wounds psychologically that one has received from childhood. Right? The hurts, the wounds, the insults, the shocks that one has received from childhood. And also in that consciousness is the pursuit of pleasure, both sexually and other forms. And in that consciousness is also the structure and the movement of fear, both biological as well as psychological. And in that also is this immense sorrow that man has carried for a millennia and over - which he has not been able to resolve. And in this consciousness is the question of time, not only chronological time but the whole movement of the becoming which is a process of time. And also the question of death, immortality, that is the thing after death. And man from the ancient days of his beginning has enquired if there is anything beyond time. Questioning. Never said there is, or accepting some comforting idea. He has always questioned right from the beginning.

So we are going to deal with all that and to investigate all that as human beings concerned with this problem, you have to look at yourself because you are the whole history of mankind. I do not know if you accept, if you see the truth of it. In one lies the whole history of all humanity; not wars and kings and the dates of kings and all the rest of it, but the psychological structure of man: his miseries, his confusion, his worries, his jealousies, his bitterness, anxiety, hates, all that. To investigate into that one has to look at oneself. Right? Have the mirror in which you observe. Are we communicating with each other? The mirror in which one can see oneself actually what one is, not what you would like to be. That mirror is relationship. Right? Relationship being the reactions in your intimate relationships with another or with a friend and so on. Relation, to be in contact, both psychologically and physically. In that relationship, in its reactions you see yourself actually as you are. Right? So we are dealing first with relationship: how we are related to another, whether intimately, closely or with another who is a friend or anybody. So in that relationship we see ourselves as we are. Clear? So what is your relationship with another? This is not, please, for heaven's sake, an intellectual talk. Right? It is not a verbal spinning of words. Because man has indulged in that for centuries. And human beings are as they are: violent, brutal, cunning - you know exactly what you are, we don't have to go into it.

So we are saying, as in the world, freedom is gradually being denied to human beings. Human rights are being gradually chipped away; human beings are being made into machines, human beings are now becoming slaves, not only to their gurus with their concentration camps which are called ashramas, but also politically, religiously, the gradual process of squeezing man into what the others or power dictate. This is happening right throughout the world. I do not know if you are aware of it, both in the tyrannical world, dictatorship in Russia and so on, but also in the so-called democratic world. So facing all that, what is man to do? When the whole environment - economic, social, religious, political - is destroying human beings and until there is a radical transformation in man, irrespective of environment, irrespective of his conditioning - political, religious, economic, social - unless he radically changes psychologically and deeply, profoundly - a psychological revolution - there is very little hope for man. I do not know if you realise all this. And when one sees this happening all over the world either one cries, sheds tears, what is happening to man or you demand of yourself the highest quality of a mind that has transformed itself and is capable of acting. That is - please, listen to what I am saying, nobody will talk to you like this. Please do listen.

You are the repository of all humanity. You are the world and the world is you. And if there is radical transformation in the very structure of the psyche, you affect the whole consciousness of man. You understand, sir? Hitler has affected the whole consciousness of man; Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and the priests in their own way have affected the consciousness of man right throughout the world. So when there is a radical transformation in you, who is the whole residue of humanity, you affect the whole consciousness of man. Do please see the importance and the truth of this. It is not an idea. Don't make it into an idea and say, 'How I am to get it, how am I to feel that I am the world?' Then if you say how am I to feel I am the world, you have reduced it into an idea, into a conclusion and want to achieve that conclusion; but if you see the actual fact, then you are that. You understand? Are we communicating with each other?

Audience: Yes.

Krishnamurti: Don't say yes, sir. This means a tremendous thing, if once you realise that you are responsible for the whole of humanity. Because all the history of mankind is in you psychologically. So we are concerned with the transformation of the psychological structure of the human. Right? So we say relationship is the mirror in which you can see actually what you are. When you examine that relationship between two human beings, husband, wife or wife and husband, or a boy friend and a girl friend, which is the modern tendency, what are you looking at? You understand? Are you looking at the image which you have about her and she has about you, the image which thought has built? Right? You understand? Are you following all this? (Laughs) Please, look at yourself, not at the description which I am making. Haven't you an image about your wife and your husband, put together through the years of living together by thought - domination, nagging, comfort, sexual demands, appetites, comfort, escape from loneliness? All that is your wife, all that is you. Right? The relationship is between these two images. So the image is unreal. It's a fiction, fiction put together by thought. Right? So thought becomes the means of communication. Right? So is thought love? You understand? Is thought, as desire, love? We will go into all this. We are enquiring together.

So is it possible not to create images of another? You understand? Image may be a conclusion, an idea, a picture, a symbol but to be free of the image-making machinery. You understand? You understand my question? Look sir, you have an image about your gurus, haven't you? If you have, unfortunately, a guru - I hope you haven't - if you have, you have made a picture of him, you have built him up, so you are responsible. The thought has put together the image of what a guru should be. You are not directly in contact with the man. You are in contact with the image you have about him. Right? This is so obvious. So is it possible - please, listen to this, we are enquiring - is it possible not to create images in relationship? It doesn't matter, with gurus, with anybody. Because then you are a human being. You understand? Not a machinery that makes images and clings to the images, attached to the image.

May I go on? Are you following all this? Please. You understand? First, see you have images, which is a fact. Now, you are asking yourself why does the mind, the brain create these images. Is it for security? Right? Because the brain demands that there must be security in order to function effectively. Right? That is the function of the brain, which is to act skilfully in all ways of life so as not to have disturbance. Because the moment the brain is disturbed it cannot function properly. Right? Are you following all this? So, it makes images because that is the safe way of living. You are following this? If I have an image about my wife and I say, 'I know my wife', it's very safe. But I really don't know her. I know the image I have made about her, the picture, and all the rest of it. So we are asking whether that machinery can stop in relationship because that relationship between two people brings about what society should be or what society is. Right? Society as it now is, right throughout the world, is immoral. Right? Oh, yes, sir! It's corrupt right through the world, because in our relationship with each other we are not honest, we are not clear, there is the image of thought creating pictures. You understand? So we are asking whether that image-making can stop. Then only there is a possibility of having love. Love is not an idea. So we will go into that presently.

So can that machinery stop? Because it's very important to find out. Then if it stops you have a direct human relationship, there is freedom in that relationship. There is no fear in that relationship. You see all the consequences of it. I haven't time to go into all this. So can this machinery, can thought not interfere in relationship? It interferes when there is a remembrance, when there is a knowledge of the past as being hurt and so on. You are following all this? It can only stop when you give complete attention in that relationship. You understand? Just think about it. We are investigating. Don't accept anything what the speaker is saying. We must begin with a great deal of scepticism, doubt, but scepticism, doubt is like a dog held on a leash. You must know when to let go and when to hold it; otherwise scepticism, doubt merely becomes bitterness, stupid. So we are saying the image-making comes to an end when you give complete attention in your relationship. Right? When your wife, or you nag her, at that moment to be completely aware. You understand? At that moment of complete awareness, there is no centre which can be affected. Have you ever given complete attention to anything? That is, now, are you giving complete attention to what is being said? Or your mind is off. And when you give complete attention, is there a centre as the 'me'? Obviously not. When there is a centre as the 'me' then that 'me' collects the pictures, the images. Right? So when there is total, complete attention in relationship, there is no picture-making at all. Got it? Do it! Then you will see the beauty of it. Then you will see the depth of this. Then we live a totally different kind of life.

Now, most of us from childhood have been hurt, have been wounded, not only physically, I am not talking physically, but psychologically. You are hurt, aren't you? You are hurt human beings, aren't we? And that is a great distorting factor in our observation. If I am hurt from childhood, the result of that hurt is that I resist, that I build a wall round myself. I am frightened to be hurt more, so I withdraw, I isolate myself or I escape from that hurt into something else. So the hurt, unless it is totally, completely wiped out, is a factor of distortion in our life. Right? Do you see that? That is, in school you are compared with another boy. You are not as clever as that boy. At home they say you are not as clever as your elder brother or your father. So comparison is one of the factors of getting hurt. Do please see it. Because that's what you are doing with your children. So can that hurt from childhood be wiped away and never to be hurt again? These two are factors. You understand? Are we together in all this, are we?

Questioner: We may We will discuss it tomorrow.

K: Just a minute, sir. We will discuss this tomorrow evening at 5.30, if you don't mind. Then we can have a good dialogue over it together. We are not stating anything but actually 'what is'. Right? Therefore there needs to be no argument about this. You don't say, 'I am not hurt', I am hurt, but if you examine very closely yourself, about yourself, you will find you are deeply wounded, deeply, psychologically hurt. Hurt comes when there is comparison, which is a fact. When you compare the boy with somebody else you are hurting the boy or the girl. And when you make him conform, you are hurting the boy or the girl and you are being made to conform, and you are being educated to compare. So you are basically, deeply hurt human beings. You may not know it. You may try to conceal it, or say, 'I am not hurt', and pretend you are not hurt, but basically when there is comparison, imitation, conformity, there must be hurt. And when there is hurt, human beings do the most extraordinary things. One of the reasons of this violence in the world is this deep hurt of human beings. And again, can these hurts be wiped away and the mind, brain, never be hurt? You understand, sir? That is innocency. We'll go into that.

So that's one of the factors in our consciousness: relationship with all the turmoil of that relationship, the jealousies, the anxieties, the brutality, the violence in that relationship. That's part of our consciousness. Then there are these deep psychological wounds: when a son is killed in a war and the mother cries or the wife or the girl cries, it's a wound - you understand? - it's a deep psychological wound. And we have had wars ever since man began. So there is this deep wound. Then in the content of this consciousness there is this factor of fear. So we are going to deal with that now.

Fear. Are you all... Do you want to go into all this? Or you are tired at the end of the day? You know, sirs and ladies, how important all this is? When man is destroying man, when human beings are destroying each other, as they are doing now - men in power, men in position seeking to maintain their position and all that, right throughout the world and when you discover that you yourself are confused, then you ask what is the right action in all this, what is a human being to do, not theoretically but actually facing every day of one's life, what is the right thing to do? How can a human being who has no relationship at all with another - you understand? - expect through images, through all that, how can he do the right action? How can a human being who has been hurt - where is the right action? Because of that hurt he will do all kinds of neurotic activity. And where human beings are frightened, as we are, how can there be right action? So to ask what is right action, you have to understand all this. You understand? Not mentally, not verbally, but actually in your heart, in your guts, in your blood, you have to understand all this.

So one of the contents of our consciousness is fear, fear of losing a job, fear of not being a success, fear of what my neighbours might say, fear of things that you have done in the past, might be revealed in the present and concealing it. There are dozens and dozens of forms of fear, of which one is aware. Are you aware of your fears? This is not group therapy. Please, that is the most stupid thing to do - group therapy. We are, in asking if you are aware of your fear - you may not be aware of it now, actually now at this minute, but there is the whole background of fear. Are you aware of it? Are you aware of the fears of mankind, fears of lack of physical security? When the world is getting more and more over-populated, when there are fewer jobs, when there is unemployment, poverty. You understand, sir? That's a tremendous sense of fear. Then there is a sense of fear of loneliness because we want to be attached to everybody. We are never alone quietly by ourselves. So we are frightened of loneliness, frightened of losing, frightened of being attached, finding yourself unattached, frightened of losing your possessions, both physiologically as well as psychologically, frightened of losing your quality, your identity, your character, this, that - frightened. And you are frightened also - aren't you? - of tomorrow, what might happen and you are ultimately frightened of death. So man is caught in this fear. Aren't you? Frightened of your gurus, frightened of your leaders, frightened of everything. So how can there be right action when there is fear? You understand? Please, do see this. You know, the Communist world, they have instilled tremendous sense of fear which they cover it up by calling 'forget yourself and help the state'. You know all this, I don't have to So there is this fear.

What is the root of fear? You understand? It's a tree with many, many branches, with lots of leaves, but what is the root of it? You understand my question? You understand, sir? We are asking, not how to trim the branches, because we have indulged in that by escaping, by justifying, by rationalising, by saying, 'Well, it doesn't matter I am afraid but somebody will help me to clear it up', or go to the temple and do all kinds of silly things there. But the basic factor of fear remains. So we are asking; together, please - together investigating what is the root of it. Don't invent, look at it. You understand? Observe your fear and go into it and see the root of it, not how to get rid of fear - you understand? - because that has been your desire - 'For God's sake, I must get rid of it somehow'. We are not saying that now. We are saying observe, explore, go into the very root of that fear. What is that fear?

Q: (Inaudible)

K: Don't tell me, sir, don't tell me, look at it, sir. We'll share this thing tomorrow evening if you are here, if you care to come.

To find out the root of fear you must go and enquire into the question of time, into the question of the whole movement of thought. You understand, sir? You understand? We are saying to understand very deeply and go beyond fear, you have to explore the movement which is called time, and the movement of thought, which is time. Unless you deeply grasp the meaning of that, you will never solve the question of fear. Right? It is related - I will show it to you presently, how it is related. This has been one of the questions, major questions of humanity: is there a stop to time? You understand? Is there an ending to time or is time a constant, endless movement? So we are enquiring into time. There is the chronological time by the watch. Those trains go by the watch, catch a bus by a watch, an appointment, coming to this meeting and so on. There is a chronological time, that is so. Right? That's a fact. Now, we are asking, is there - please listen - is there psychological time at all or has thought invented it? You're following this? This opens up so much, I don't know how Look, sir, learning takes time. Learning a language takes time. Learning a technique takes time, learning a practice to meditate which you all do - practise, practise, practise, thinking that will get you somewhere, that makes you more and more mechanical. We will go into that. So our whole psychological education, which is to learn, is based on time. Right? This is a fact. So we are conditioned to the movement of time psychologically. If you miss a train, you can take the next train. If you miss a bus you can take another bus. But psychologically, inwardly the movement of time, that is the past meeting the present, modifying the present and moving to the future. Right? Do you see this, sir? That is, time is this movement, psychologically. The knowledge which you have acquired in the past, modified in the present by events, by other factors and proceeding further to be modified, changed, and further. Right? This constant movement from the past through the present, to the future is a process of time. Right? That is, time which is the movement of thought. Right? Thought is the past, modified in the present by facts and further movement of thought. Right? The past meeting the present, modifying it and moving further, which is called the future. So that movement is not only time but thought.

So we have to examine what thought is, because all our activity is based on thought. Your temples, your gurus, your rituals, your politics, economics, your relationship, everything is based on thought. You may say, 'No, I have an intuition'. But that intuition is part of thinking. You may not know the full significance of that intuition because you haven't investigated it which is also a movement of thought. So everything, all our life is based on thought. Right? When you choose a guru it is based on thought, when you choose a profession, it is based on thought, when you have an image about your wife it is based on thought or your husband, and so on. So the whole human materialistic world and so-called spiritual world is based on thought. Right? Is that clear? Clear, not because I say it, for yourself it is clear. The gods you have invented, this higher self, the self, the way to the self is all the movement of thought. All the temples, all the rituals, all the churches, the priests, everything is based on thought. You are a Muslim, Hindu, a Sikh - thought. Trained by your parents, grandparents and all the rest of it. You understand? So thought is a movement in time and measure. Right?

So what is thought upon which our whole human structure is based? What is thought? Now, just a minute, just a minute, listen to what I am saying. When I ask a question like that, what takes place in your mind? When I ask you, 'what is thinking', what's going on, how is your brain reacting to it? You are looking to find out for an answer, aren't you? Which is also a movement of thought. You say, 'I read somewhere what thinking is. Did this man who is speaking, has he talked about it and let me quickly remember it'. So your thought is operating to find out an answer. Right? So thought is time, a movement in time and measure, the distance from here to there both psychologically as well as physiologically. So what is thought? Is there a thought without the thinker? You understand, sir? Is there a thinker if there is no thought? Of course not, of course! So thought has created the thinker. Right? And separated itself as the thinker and thought. Right? That is what we do. I, the thinker, is different from my thought. I, the thinker, must control my thought. I, the thinker, must shape the thought. But when there is no thought there is no thinker. I won't go into all that. So thinking is a movement. Right? Movement from the past as knowledge, as experience, stored up in the brain and the response of that brain which has knowledge, is the movement of thinking. This is obvious. Right? Please, you are not accepting it from me.

Q: Could you repeat the sentence once more?

K: What sir?

Q: Could you repeat the sentence once more?

K: I don't know what I said. All right. I want to go on. I've forgotten what I said, I will put it into different words. We said, sir, time is movement, from here to there, both physically as well as psychologically. From here to there being the past meeting the present, and the future. So that is a movement of time which is thought. Thought is experience stored up as knowledge in the brain and when challenged, responding as thought. So thought - please, listen - thought is a material process. We have been talking about it for years, now the scientists are saying the same thing, who have explored into the question of brain and the structure of the brain. Because I have met several of them and they also say, 'Yes, thought is a material process'. You understand? Whatever it invents is still in the material world. There is nothing spiritual about thought. It is still a material movement. That is - watch it: I have had an experience - pleasant or unpleasant - yesterday. It is stored up as memory, as a remembrance and that remembrance meets the present and translates the present according to its memory, pleasant or unpleasant and acts on that. Right? And the experience is both biological as well as psychological. I may not have biological, physiological experience, but I might have psychological experience, which is what? Psychological, the psyche is the structure of thought as the 'me'. Right? Thought has put together a structure which is called 'me': the name, the form, the quality; all that is thought. So thought is a material process and everything that thought has done is material. God, if you see that! You understand?

So we are asking now: what is the root of fear? It is thought. Right? Thought that says, 'I am not a success, I must become a success', thought that is afraid of tomorrow; it has created the picture of tomorrow and is afraid of tomorrow, the picture thought has created about the wife and losing the wife, jealousy of the wife - you follow? - or the husband and so on, so on. All that is the movement of thought. So, technologically you need knowledge. Right? Obviously. How to drive a car, speak English - a language, learning a profession and storing that memory of that information and acting skilfully, technologically. There, knowledge is absolutely essential. But we think knowledge is also psychologically essential, which is, storing up memory, and acting according to that memory, memory which creates a pattern and acting according to that pattern. This is obvious, this is what is happening everyday. So thought is a mechanical process and acting in the pattern is mechanical. Right? Psychologically. So the brain has been reduced to a mechanistic process: remembering the past as knowledge, creating a pattern and acting in the pattern. You can see it for yourself. Is that obvious? No? So we are saying as long as there is a movement of thought from the past through the present, to the future, there must be fear.

So the next question is: is it possible - please listen - is it possible to register only technological knowledge and nothing else? You understand my question, sir? Do you understand my question, sir? I am going to put it, I'll make it clear. I need knowledge how to drive a car, how to speak a language - any language - how to drive a car, how to manipulate, you know, all the technological knowledge I must have. Right? It has to be registered in the brain and the brain stores it and acts skilfully or not skilfully, given a certain job or a certain function - that you must have. I am asking something else. There, you have registered information, educated to collect information and gathering information as knowledge and operating skilfully in knowledge. There, it is very clear. Now we are asking: is there any need to register anything else? There, I see I have registered a great deal. Is there any necessity for the brain to register any psychological imprints - you understand, sir? - like hurt, like jealousy and so on, any factor which distorts perception? This is too difficult! You understand, this is one of the questions they are facing this, psychologists and scientists are facing. I have discussed with them - forgive me, I am nobody, I happened to discuss with them. You see, meditation is not all the circus that goes on - but a brain that has only registered what is absolutely physiologically necessary and nothing else. Which means a brain that has registered what is necessary and everything else it hasn't registered at all. Which is - you understand my question? Understand it. Just put the question and let it simmer inside you. Because this is a tremendous problem. This is not just casual, to be talked about and casually answered. Because psychologically we are conditioned, Hindus, Muslims and all the rest of it, the rubbish. That conditioning is the registration from childhood on the brain of custom, tradition, all that. So the brain is carrying the past. Right? Tradition, rituals, 'I am a Hindu', 'I am not a Hindu', 'I am Buddhist', 'I am this, I am'. Because it is carrying all that burden, it is never free. It is only when it is free that it can observe clearly.

To observe clearly there must be no distortion. When you are looking through a microscope, if you are a scientist, if you come to it as a Communist, as a Socialist (laughs) as a businessman or this or that, you can't see clearly what is actually going on. Right? So meditation is part of this unconditioning the mind, the brain from all the registration. Sir, this means business, you understand? This is not just a plaything for children, this is enormously important. This is the most profoundly serious thing we are talking about. Because it affects the whole of human kind: it affects you, it affects my son, my wife, my husband, my - you follow? So the content of my consciousness, of one's consciousness, content of human consciousness, are these things: relationship, hurts, fear, pursuit of pleasure, sorrow, what they call love, and the unknown which is death - all that is the content of our consciousness. The content makes up consciousness. Right? The content. Fear, pleasure makes up our consciousness. If there is no fear, no hurt, the ending of sorrow, there is totally the ending of the consciousness as we know it. That is radical transformation. So human beings have to go beyond hurt, beyond fear, beyond all this.

So, after hearing the root of fear which is thought, movement of time, can that fear end? You have intellectually, verbally probably understood it or made an abstraction of it as an idea, a conclusion and you then say, 'How am I going to achieve that conclusion?' Which is, you have moved away from the fact. I don't know if you see that. When you make a conclusion, when you make an abstraction of the fact that you are frightened, you never face it, you never see it. So ideas, conclusions, opinions are dangerous with regard to fact, psychological fact. Right, sir? Do you see this? So thought as movement in time and measure, is a material process. Thought has been the root of fear. Thought says, 'I might lose my job', thought that says, 'I have had pain a fortnight ago or a year ago and I hope it won't return' - which is fear of returning. Thought that says, 'I am lonely, I am desperate in my loneliness' and escapes from it; thought that says, 'I must be like that man or that woman, I am not beautiful, but I must be like that. I am not tall, but I therefore put on high heels'. Everything is the movement of thought. Right? And that is the root of fear.

So the next question is: can that movement naturally come to an end? You understand? Naturally, not cultivated end, not thought saying, 'I must end it therefore how am I to do it. I'll practise'. You follow? 'I'll practise attention, I'll do this and do that', which are all the operations of thought still, therefore bringing more conflict. You understand? So we are asking: can thought see what it is doing, observe itself what it is doing and in the very observation of it ends it. You understand my question? Now wait a minute, I'll show it to you. When you meet a danger, physical danger there is instant action, isn't there? Why? Because you see danger: a cobra or a precipice or a bus coming, hurtling towards you, you move, because intelligence there says, 'Get out, jump, run away'. Right? Because that is dangerous. But you don't see the danger of fear. Right? As you see the danger of a precipice, you don't see fear is the most dangerous thing for man. Right? So it is dangerous because when there is fear there is darkness. You go through agonies, physically you shrink and psychologically you enclose yourself. So fear is the most dangerous human quality. And the root of that is the movement of thought - memory, experience, response. So, when you see something dangerous physically you act instantly. In the same way you act instantly if you see the danger of the movement of thought which creates fear. Then naturally thought says I won't - you follow? - there is an ending of thought, therefore ending of time at that moment when there is fear. Then you will ask, 'I may do that, but will there be an end of fear all the time?' You understand? I may be able to do this once, see the danger of fear, as the danger of nationality - you understand? - because nationalities are destroying the world, because they are separating. Where there is separation, Arab, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Communists, whatever it is, or Maoist, that very separation, division brings conflict. That is a danger for human survival. And if you see the danger of nationality, you are no longer a nationalist. Right? You don't make an effort to be not-national, you see the danger of it. Right? So in the same way, if you see the danger of fear, what it does to human beings, fear when you treat your servants - he is afraid - isn't he? - might lose his job, the way you talk to him, the way you treat him you are creating fear. And partly you like all that kind of thing because you want to dominate the poor chap. And somebody else comes along and dominates you. So this process goes on right the way up.

So thought has its place in the technological world. Thought has no other place. If you see the danger of that then naturally, without a single movement of effort, thought remains at its place. You understand? There is great beauty in this if you know it. Look at it, sir. The world is now being dominated by two factors - Marxism in different forms - Socialism, Marxism and the varieties of Marxism and so on. That's one factor. The other factor is analysis, computerisation of everything. Marxism with all its varieties including Mao who was a Marxist, but a poetic Marxist, and analysis. You analyse everything. Don't you? So these are the dominant factors going on in the world today. And these are the two factors that are destroying the world, man, because both are after patterns. Right? Therefore in these two there is no love. Right? When there is a dogma, however beautiful, however clothed, you know, puts on lovely robes, and any form of dogma is destroying the world. And when there is the analytical process: analyse your love, your wife, everything analyse, which means eventually setting a pattern of control. I don't know if you see all this. And when these two elements are functioning in the world, you are destroying care, affection, love, compassion, the immensity of it, which is the only factor that is going to solve the problem, not either of these two. You understand? Therefore, seeing all this what is a man to do? Because man has tried communism. Right? Suppression, domination, war; he has tried analysis. So when you see all this, what are you to do as a human being, human being who is the world? You understand? You are not individuals. Individual means a human being who is not broken up, who is whole, complete. That man is a total individual, total human being. But we are not that, we are broken up, business, you know. So seeing all this, what is a human being to do, what is the right action, politically - you follow? - in relationship, in everything, what is right action? You are facing that problem now. Do you understand? Not only now in this hall, but when you go outside if you are aware of all the things that are going on in the world - the lies, the deceptions, the power principles operating - you follow? - right through the world - what are you, as a human being who is the world, the whole thing, you are the repository of history, what are you to do? You can't escape, you can't go off into a monastery in the Himalayas or in Rome, because you carry wherever you go into a monastery or anywhere you are carrying the world with you. You understand? So what are you to do? What is the right thing to do? When you do the right thing everything comes right. Right? There is no regrets, there is no pain, there is no reward, no punishment - it's the right thing to do.

So you have to go, investigate, before you ask that question, into your consciousness. You understand? Look at it, observe it and see what it is and then out of the understanding and breaking down of hurts, this or that, comes right action. You don't even have to ask what is right action, you do the right thing.

So we will discuss, talk over together, pleasure, sorrow, love and death when we talk over together next time. Only in between we are having two dialogues at 5.30 tomorrow and day after tomorrow.

Q: Not day after, but on the 6th.

K: What, sir.

PJ: Second dialogue is on the 6th, it's not day after tomorrow. The first dialogue is tomorrow, the second dialogue is on the 6th and not day after tomorrow.

K: Not?

PJ: Not day after tomorrow.

K: Oh, what is it, I don't know. If I've given you wrong information, please, sorry. So you're having tomorrow

PJ: Tomorrow is dialogue.

K: Tomorrow is dialogue.

PJ: And on the 5th there is no dialogue, on the 6th again there is a dialogue.

K: Oh, on the 6th there is a dialogue, and on the 7th

PJ: On the 7th there is a talk.

K: there is a talk. Simple enough. Right.