Two Conversations with Pupul Jayakar, 1983

Dialogue 1

What will bring about change in the brain?

Dialogue 1 Brockwood Park
June 24, 1983

There is only thought, it is not Eastern thought or Western thought. The expression of thought may be different in India and in the West but it is still a process of thought. What brings about a change in the human brain? What will make human beings alter the way they behave? This appalling brutality, what will change all this? Who will change it? My son is dead, that’s a fact. I can’t change a fact; he is gone. It sounds cruel to say it but he is gone. But I am carrying him all the time. The brain is carrying him as memory and the reminder is always there. I never say, 'He has gone, that’s a fact,' but I live on memories, which is a dead thing. Memories are not actual. Insight is the total absence of the whole movement of thought – as time, remembrance and thought. Are we aware that we are prisoners of our own fantasies, imaginations, conclusions and ideas? How do you have a sustained movement of energy that is not dissipated by thought, by any kind of activity?


Dialogue 2

Why are we frightened to be nothing?

Dialogue 2 Brockwood Park
June 25, 1983

Is there, or can there be, in the human brain a space without end, an eternity out of time? The mind is a wholly different dimension which has no contact with thought. The brain, that part of the brain which has been functioning as an instrument of thought, that brain has been conditioned. As long as that part of the brain remains in that state there is no communication with the mind. Insight is possible only when there is cessation of thought and time. If there is a verbal sound, I am not listening, I am only understanding the words. But you want to convey to me something much more than the words. The psyche is a bundle of memories and those memories are dead. They operate, they function, but they are the outcome of past experience, which is gone. I am a movement of memories. If I have an insight into that, I am nothing, there is nothing. I don’t exist. The ending of the movement which is the psyche, which is time-thought, the ending of that is to be nothing. Nothing then contains the whole universe – not my petty little fears, anxieties, problems, sorrow. After all, nothing means the entire world of compassion.


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